Do you cheat with Pahlava?

[Jebivjetar]

I ask this because to me it seems impossible to go ahead with Pahlava unless you cheat, with process_cq or add_money cheat: offcourse, alternatively you can play all the time with 4-5 horsarchers and fighting same old battles with them... Pahlavan cities make too little money to finance armies and building projects in same time: i have aprox 10 towns, and still cant get any money for buildings: AS are attacking me all the time, i barely had money to build barracks for horse archers near border with them so i can defend myself(so i dont need to wait about 5 turns to bring H/As from my capital): i can finance about one stack of horse archers and foot archers and nothing more! I have no money to build anything, even traders: there are just too many buildings you must build to get reformed gov, and a lot of time to do so: still, money is a HUGE issue with Pahlava...

Has anybody achieved something with them without using any cheat? I ask this because i dont want to cheat, and if i find Pahlava impossible without cheating, ill rather just quit my campaign...


Here is picture of my progress. except now i have Baktria too

[seienchin]

I guess most people raid the Seleukid Lands to get money.
Anyway if you dont want that just capture Baktrian Lands. They have a whole lot of mines there giving plenty of money. And never built client rulers!!! They cost more than 1000 a turn in the east

[A Very Super Market]

Heh. Don't play Saka, Hayasdan, or Pontos then.....

[seienchin]

None of them has this Problem.
As Pontos you have money, only a really bad position. Same with Hayasdan. The Saka have no money, but nothing threatens them right?

[A Very Super Market]

Your bad situation creates a need for money to defend yourself, thus depleting the fairly little amount you have.

[HunGeneral]

I would suggest you try I "roleplay-plan" of mine: simply use add_money cheat so that you don't go into the red (in other words you will only use the cheat to add money and make youre treasury is equall to 0) this way you still won't have any money but you will be able to get on your legs when raiding AS or Baktria settlements.

The reason whiy I find this legitim is that Nomadic "economy" knows no debt - most of your soldiers fight for loot, honor and to be aknowledged as great warriors. So the RTW system doesn't represent this very realisticly.

I always use it to start my Saka, Sauromatae, Pahlav campaigns. Although with Pahlav it would be unfair if you use it after youre people have settled. If you wan't to represent this perfectly then conquer all provinces with Homeland resource for Phalav and only then start building the reformed goverments. (haven't tried this one yet however...)

[Zradha Pahlavan]

When I first played I immediatly launched a Blitzkreig campaign against the Seleucids, easily netting a bunch of cities. I still had little money, but it was enough to beat back the first couple of Seleucid phalanx counterattacks and allowed me to push forward again and take over the old Persian lands.
Despite all this, I still had no money.
But then I hit upon a brilliant plan. I assembled small groups of horsemen and made long-distance raids across Seleucid territory where I sacked major cities (I used a rather 'evil' general for this since extermination was, unfortunately, necessary). A spy or two would make sure the army could stay out of the way of the enemy phalanxes, while the horsemen pillaged and looted all the finest cities of the middle east and smashed enemy barracks. They made it back to my lands with minimal losses. Then I was rich. For a while.
No cheating was needed.

Even now, when I command a substantial empire, I still have barely enough money to scrape by. That's just how EB works on VH difficulty.

[Zeibek]

I do the exact same thing as Zradha Pahlavan: blitz the Seleukid cities in Iran and after the initial rush go about sacking cities in Mesopotamia and the Levant to prevent the Silver Death from flooding you with elites later on and make some money. I usually attack Baktria only after I've consolidated my hold on Iran and made sure the AS won't be up to much for a while.

[V.T. Marvin]

Hmm, I am little bit surprised by the suggestions stated above.

I have played Pahlava campaigns since 0.81v2 on each new EB release and I have tried various stategies to keep the things going, but I have never experienced a situation that would demand cheating. Cheating IMHO completely destroys whatever enjoyment you can get from the game as there would always be the thought in the background of your conscience that you have not stood up to the challenge. In fact, I have found blitz strategies and/or sacking of AS cities as spoiling the game in the long run. I am certainly no masochist, but I find the tight starting years, when one watches the AI turn going in the tense excitement whether a gray or blue or red fullstack appear out of nowhere towards your almost defenceless cities and the triumphal relief when such a menace is crushed by tiny band of horsemen and gund-i-nizagans as the most rewarding experiences of the whole game. And when those starting decades are a mere histor and the royal purple spreads over the world map and a mighty empire is born, that is even better knowinghow this all was hardly won from the most humble beginnings! I love playing as Pahlava!!!

I would sincerely advice to anybody to try to play them slow, no cheats, no blitz, no raiding, no attacking others unless being attacked first. Go slowly, build your economy and the reward will be yours. Patience brings roses, they say...

[seienchin]

Just as I said. The East has a lot of mining Money to get. Just Stay away from Client rulers and conquer mining cities. When I played Pahla I also raided Seleucid Settlements. Mainly because I needed to stop the Elite Stackspamming but not for money.

[Jebivjetar]

Thanks for advices, guys!

Ive just conquered Persopolis and have acces to sea. Still have no money, Baktria is going to destroy me with their AI-granted fullstack with some elites (calvary and phalanxes), AS (suprisingly) is not attacking me, but just stand with half stack of phalanxes 2 turns from my city on the border and if they want, they could destroy me very soon. None of my towns is growing (still, i have to retrain...) and no matter how many cities i get, cant do anything except raid and run... so i think ill quit, i have no pleasure running horse archers around phalanxes all the time...

VerySuper Market: Ive played with Pontos (wich is "night-impossible" as i can remember) and it was much joyful and "easier" than Pahlava (wich is "very challenging")...

[seienchin]

Capture Baktria!!!
Forget about Persepolis. See or not, without mines the cities dont get enough money. Maybe you should donate it to the ptollis^^. Might help with AS...

[penguinking]

My Pahlavan campaign, 246 BC (VH/M difficulty)


I really didn't find it too hard. I just attacked the Seleucids immediately. You start with two armies, so one can go south and quickly take Asaak, Zadrakta, and the other Seleucid town near there, while the other can go east and take the two northernmost seleucid provinces before joining up with your other army. By this point I had enough cash to hire some mercenary foot archers for garrison, and could support a stack of 3 FMs and 4-6 horse archers. I defeated three seleucid half stacks before sweeping south again, quickly taking Gabai and Persepolis, and then the rest of the seleucid's eastern possessions.

At this point my economy took off, and I could afford two half stacks of horse archers, with which I invaded Mesopotamia. After taking Babylon I decided to stop expanding for awhile, but eventually got tired of constant annoying battles and took Syria. Perhaps I was lucky, because neither Baktria nor Saka attacked me. Eventually I decided to raise another army and crush Baktria just for fun. So, cheating is definitely not necessary.

[Jebivjetar]

Capture Baktria!!!
Forget about Persepolis.

O, Baktria is mine already, and somehow i managed to defend it from arising Baktrian armies from east (they have 2 more towns somewhere in the bushes...), now i think i can relax about Baktria issue: ive destroyed all their elites (god bless mercenary phalangites) and now they are comming with archers, wich will never cross "bridges to Baktria"

I didnt quit! In one of my cities sonn ill be able to produce noble and armoured cataphracts" and i cant wait to see them on the battlefield


I still have one question: whats the difference between pastoralism and nomadism? I know what it means, i allso know that when you build pastoralism you can go for reforms: but still, in some cities you cant do that, like in Baktra: so i dont understand what difference does it make there. Can anybody help?

[Jebivjetar]

My Pahlavan campaign, 246 BC (VH/M difficulty)

You rule, man

[Jebivjetar]

And one more thing about money: i send my diplomat in Italy, offered map information to Romans and they didnt want it at all, they just gave me about 5000 minai. In next turns i did the same, and they gave me about same money if ill pay them tribute: i accept agreement and immediately canceled it: i did it in few turns, Romans blame me for "transgression", and it was my first "skirmish" with them!

[Subedei]

And one more thing about money: i send my diplomat in Italy, offered map information to Romans and they didnt want it at all, they just gave me about 5000 minai. In next turns i did the same, and they gave me about same money if ill pay them tribute: i accept agreement and immediately canceled it: i did it in few turns, Romans blame me for "transgression", and it was my first "skirmish" with them!

Nice one! Good job!

[Atraphoenix]

why do you need cheat, I do not understand; just blitz AS until you burn Antiocheia!
then restore your country and baktria is piece of cake after you can send them your Cataphracts!

My pahlava campaign 243 BC no cheat!:

Even I have submods for 0 recruitment and more movement points too, but I did not use them in that campaign.

until you can send AS to the west of euphrates mercenaries are your friend... hyrkanian hillmen best phalanx killer believe me...

P.S. I gave maks trapezus to make them alive cos I plan them to be as a buffer state between me and epirot monster.

[Jebivjetar]

@ Atraphoenix: i never cheat, never... i just asked people who played Pahlava for some stories based on their experience with Pahlava, because, to me, on the beginning it seemed imposible to play with them without cheats and at that point i wanted to quit. But not anymore! This is what i achieved this far (and i think im gonna go for victory screen)

here is my picture:

[Atraphoenix]

I never said you cheated. It was a rhetorical questions like "Who knows?"
It is quite opposite to historical accuracy but you need to blitz with Pahlava to survive, and every pahlava fan may agree with me.

Hyrkanian hillmen and other axemen are good phalanx hunters just order them loose formation so they can outflank phalanxes while they are holding the line your HAs handles the rest.

even Catas cannot be so mad to attack from front so always charge from back or flanks.
Though I tested that grivpandar can annihilate argyspides (elite phalanx) front front.

P.S. Do not recruit noble catas just recruit normal catas because nobles have sword normal catas have AP as second weapon.

I hope it helps you to revive old glory of persians. I like late times with pahlava because you feel like xerxes when you besiege athens. also it is quite fun to disembark elaphants on Italy

[Zradha Pahlavan]

This is how far I've gotten as of 205 BC on VH/H.


The problem is that there's been a stalemate in Syria ever since the Macedonians launched a crusade against me. Admittedly I haven't played much in a while...

Incidentally, how do you get elephants when playing as Pahlava?

[Watchman]

You don't. Unlike their Sassanid successors they never used hefalumps IRL, AFAIK (or in any case, not for war; OTOH I wouldn't be surprised if the Shashashashashashanshahs occasionally kept a few around as pets just for shit and giggles and to impress visiting delegates).

Anyway, as regards cheating, I make like HunGeneral above - I use "add_money" to keep the economy from going into the red at the beginning. Mainly for two reasons - for one, I sincerely doubt if "state debt" was actually possible with period financial structures, for another, out of sheer convenience (because it's boring to sit on your ass for twenty turns paying off the accumulated debt...). Also if necessary to pay for at least the most rudimentary adminstration of captured regions, ie. the initial occupation/pacification precursor, just to keep things logical.

[Zradha Pahlavan]

"You don't."

That's funny, given that the Pahlava have elephants listed on the EB "Pahlava units" page and that those elephants have a unique unit skin.

[Watchman]

Well call me Bridget and bugger me sideways, I stand corrected. That's what you get for not checking the EDU and DMB first.

I guess you need to make like the Saka and go down to India to get them, then. And prolly go through the reform chain and whatnot.

[johnhughthom]

Woah! I had no idea those guys existed!

[Jebivjetar]

Has anybody experienced thing as this: you play Pahlava, capture Baktra; Baktria have 2 towns north and east of Baktra left (i cant remember the names), and after some time they start to spam you with half and full stacks of light infantry and FMs with 60 men?? Well, i know that AI has a money: but how can 2 towns support 2 fullstacks??

[HunGeneral]

Has anybody experienced thing as this: you play Pahlava, capture Baktra; Baktria have 2 towns north and east of Baktra left (i cant remember the names), and after some time they start to spam you with half and full stacks of light infantry and FMs with 60 men?? Well, i know that AI has a money: but how can 2 towns support 2 fullstacks??

Interresting. I faced something simlier in my Saka campaing when Baktria used Kophen to support 1 and a half full staks. What must be behing it is that they harldy build anything and most of there troops are levies so quite cheap... I stayed with the same tactic as I had till now.. Simply sent my hordes of horsemen to kill all and enslave the survivers. (in other word I destroyed the faction).

I would suggest you do the same or keep forts with half stacks of infantry or supporting HA to keep them contained if you wish to leave Baktria alive.

[Jebivjetar]

@HunGeneral: youre right, i think im gonna destroy them

Still, there is a problem: almost all of my armies are somewhere around Babylon (im having a real, big crusade against AS), so ill have to send some of them to Baktria to manage situation there. That means ill have to leave Antiocheia: i wont have enough soldiers to defend it


And one more very interesting thing in my campaign: while i was blitzing AS, taking everything they had, they just moved in Ptolies lands: i play with toggle_fow, and this is what i saw: Ptolies didnt even defend them selves against AS: they send all their armies to the east and captured most of rebel-cities, leaving everything behind without appropriate defences: its just like they gave their land to AS as a gift... i dont understand that. I even offered them Palmyra when i capture it: they didnt want it!

[HunGeneral]

Still, there is a problem: almost all of my armies are somewhere around Babylon (im having a real, big crusade against AS), so ill have to send some of them to Baktria to manage situation there. That means ill have to leave Antiocheia: i wont have enough soldiers to defend it

Hmmm.. is the AS still making reasenoble resistance or are they just trying to slow you down?

One thing you could try is put some foot archers, slingers + horse archers into the city and if it gets besieged then sally - send out the HA's through one or more of the gates, keep your archers on the walls. Use the cavalry to lure anything in the range of the skirmishers on the walls and overrun routing troops with your HA after they ran out of ammo. If all archers/slingers/HA are out of ammo just get your troops back into town and finish the battle (press Esc and click on "quit batttle" if it sais your sally was succesful then you can leave the battle) - you keep the town and no loses will be healed on any side... This is the best nomads can make out of stone walls.

And one more very interesting thing in my campaign: while i was blitzing AS, taking everything they had, they just moved in Ptolies lands: i play with toggle_fow, and this is what i saw: Ptolies didnt even defend them selves against AS: they send all their armies to the east and captured most of rebel-cities, leaving everything behind without appropriate defences: its just like they gave their land to AS as a gift... i dont understand that. I even offered them Palmyra when i capture it: they didnt want it!

I never saw that before although I never got that far as you are now (too little time for EB)
Make sure you get the AS out of Alexandria there they can still train all there elite troops

Goosd luck to the rest of the campaing.

[Jebivjetar]

Baktrians are about to loose their new capital (Kophen), and the AS now lives in Asia Minor

Here are some pictures from my campaign:












Now i understand what it means when you have armoured H/As