Do you cheat with Pahlava?

[Jebivjetar]

And i must correct myself: i have wrote that Ptolies moved to the east, which is not truth: in fact, they are moving south, as is showed on some pictures.

[antisocialmunky]

I didn't have to cheat to kill Big Blue and Grey Death. I ended up having to sit at my starting town until I had about 4 FMs that had spent 20 years gassing the massive Grey and Blue blobs. Eventually I broke out, killed the Bactrians, and gobbled up all those naked Seleucid towsn in the east. Earthquakes in the Zagros kept killing my elite armeis though. :-\

[Jebivjetar]

Ive decided to use add_population (with -) because i dont have money to build palaces for upgrading my cities. It is weird, you know, that money issue with Pahlava: you have to build all those things in order to get reforms, then you must build new barracks: population is growing and its not fun when you cant do anything except build and build and build. I have about 20 provinces and cannot afford palaces! Damn! I do not have any elites (ok, i have one cataphracts, ive trained them because Pahlava is known for having them, but thats all elites i have), but afterall: my budget for army is very, very small, i have few little armies, mainly H/As, i spare money whenever i can, but anyway have not enough to upgrade my cities... Damn.... And that rich AI can afford everything it wants (e.g. Baktria, with 2 towns is having about 3 fullstacks), but me, as a human player, cannot build what is necessary...

Now i have big empire without money...
I have no money to build.
If i dont build, my public order became very low... I dont want my hardly-earned provinces to rebel. Especially not to AS..

I have alternative:

1) disband my army and just build (read: build cities for my enemies who will take them if i wont defend them)
2) fight well with my armies and give my provinces to rebels.


... i think ill quit now..............

To conquer with Pahlava and expand: thats something i call "two sided blade": its weakening me....

[Dayve]

Armoured horsies are terrifying. Play a campaign as Baktria, conquer Alexandreia Eschate and wait for Pahlava and Saka to declare war (they will, trust me). Then, take your best and biggest army and wait for it to be attacked by a Saka or Pahlava army with a large number of heavy horsies and family members. Saka seem to use a great many family members in their armies.

Only then will you know what it means to fight with or against these units.

The battle can't be in a city or fort or in any way where you are blocking a chokepoint and they have to charge your spears head on. Just a plain open field battle.

[Atraphoenix]

I have adapted realist movement mod so to send armies from mesopotamia to baktria does not take 6 -8 years now

[Jebivjetar]

I have adapted realist movement mod so to send armies from mesopotamia to baktria does not take 6 -8 years now

How did you manage that? Which modifications have you made (and which files)?

[Alsatia]

Sorry, I cannot answer the last question. An i'm wondering, how in the world does the AI manage Pahlava to rise up and pwn Selucids?

[Jebivjetar]

When starting new campaign (272bc) just type "toggle_fow" in console window and see strength and position of the starting AI Pahlavan armies. In most cases they will beat AS, but sometimes they will end up pretty bad if AS manage to beat them.

[Alsatia]

True, True. But the fact that they actually have a chance to smash up AS is alrady an achievement.

[Marcus Ulpius]

After my Hayasdan campaign was unsuccessful I've started a Pahlava one. Their initial situation is bad. They have 2 tiny armies, which are most likely capable of taking about 3 AS towns. But what after that, when AS will start sending reinforcements from Mesopotamia? Those towns will most likely not be enough to generate enough income to both fight off the influx of AS forces and to develop the economy and infrastructure. How people are talking about raiding core AS territories when all you get is one army with 3 HA units and another one with 2 foot archers and 3 HA's. Immediately after start you are in red and your new cities will only give you peanuts, barely enough to slow down your sliding into deep debt. I'm currently trying to survive and I have enough men to defeat those pantodapoi and akontistai, but even one decent half-stack from Babylon will finish me off.

[Zradha Pahlavan]

I didn't raid stuff until I had taken over Susa and Persepolis. Also, don't underestimate the basic horse archers. I've used almost nothing but them and the generals' units for victory.

[Jebivjetar]

How people are talking about raiding core AS territories when all you get is one army with 3 HA units and another one with 2 foot archers and 3 HA's.

Well, these 2 little armies have their purpose: to conquer AS

Im not joking: in my campaign, they are defending Antiocheia at this time

[Jebivjetar]

And i want to know: have somebody of you already achieved victory conditions for Pahlava?

[Marcus Ulpius]

I'm sure some ppl did it. I think I saw a world domination map from Pahlava campaign somewhere. But for me, after playing with Makedonians, Pahlava look incredibly tough. Economy is your biggest enemy as horse troops are expensive. I can't produce levy troops like I did in early stages of my Makedonian campaign. Actually, I can't even retrain the troops. I think the biggest challenge is to conquer several towns in the beginning nearly without losses at all.

[Zradha Pahlavan]

I've gotten fairly close but I'm not there yet. Ionia remains Greek and the Seleucids still live. Unfortunately it has become somewhat of a stalemate, and Edessa and Damascus are still major enemy strongholds. Full stacks of Syrian archers and Thorakitai do not seem like fun things to fight in city battles...

[Jebivjetar]

Reforms finally!

:




And, yes, this is how i manage spamming armies:


:

[Marcus Ulpius]

Small factions spamming full stacks is not much a problem for any empire with good steady economy. I remember that in my Roman campaign Lusos were reduced to two settlements, but they had like 3 full stacks of troops. Eventually I've killed them all, but at that point I had tons of money and could support numerous full stacks on all fronts.

It can however be a huge problem for economically struggling factions, like Pahlava, Hayasdan etc. I think that making AI assistance script work in some kind of dynamic way could solve that, but I'm not sure it is possible, and even if it is possible, EB team priorities lie elsewhere.

[Jebivjetar]

O, yes, im really tired of that AI army-spamming... Its not realistic anymore: its just boring, like, 2-3 full stacks from one Bactrian town, and many full stacks from crushed AS: so ive decided to transport them into Italy, and when the time comes, ill make them come back and then, after i manage to get some capable army, i will crush them.

If i had quit any of my campaigns, its because of AI spamming armies: i just hate it: especially when playing Pahlava... Script just aint fair...

[Jebivjetar]

As a matter of fact: it's impossible to enjoy building an empire whatever i do with Pahlava: it's ALWAYS about blitzing, even if you conquer about 20-30 cities: you're always at beginning,no matter what you do... I've found that Script is cool: but, when playing Pahlava, it ain't...

Man, Pahlava is most difficult faction that i have played

[Arutima]

God, all of you sure like to rush

[Jebivjetar]

God, all of you sure like to rush

Ok, i would like to know: how did you manage to beat AS/Baktria/Saka Rauka/Hayasdan: in what order did you smash them?

Which difficulty do you play?

Are you using force diplomacy?

[Atraphoenix]

How did you manage that? Which modifications have you made (and which files)?

just check unofficial submods

here is my link to it:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=116294

you have to change descr_character file in both data folder of Eb and sp game edu backup.
I used RS team set namely 260 in the line:

starting_action_points 260

but many testers have been saying some buggy issues so a new campaign is necessary I am around 260s. Arshak is on the last phase of his indian campaign. Tirdad is about to conquer ecbatana.

but beware AI also uses this against you.
My vital advice if you play with this mod AS uses infantry so they move very slow but if you use just cavalry in the first phase you may have a very important advantage so keep your infantries at cities and always use cavalries with your field army . after you conquer more than 12 15 provinces if you know how to handle arygispides that they started to send me when I was about to enter mesopotamia do not stop until you conquer antiocheia.

P.S. Hyrcanian hillmen are good phalanx hunters so use them in loose formation to surround phalanxes from flanks and rear. for elite phalanx you must have completed cavalry building that cost 6000 manai in khiva. so if you just looted a city build that cavalty barract to get noble catas and archer catas.

[Atraphoenix]

As a matter of fact: it's impossible to enjoy building an empire whatever i do with Pahlava: it's ALWAYS about blitzing, even if you conquer about 20-30 cities: you're always at beginning,no matter what you do... I've found that Script is cool: but, when playing Pahlava, it ain't...

Man, Pahlava is most difficult faction that i have played

That is why nearly all of my modes based on playing with pahlava.
but again the only solution is BLITZING!

[Marcus Ulpius]

I'm currently at the very beginning of my Pahlava campaign and it seems that the only way to survive is to expand as fast as possible while AS only sends pantodapoi and akontistai. That's why I think about going forward with that campaign or not. I don't like blitzing and prefer more gradual expansion.

[Jebivjetar]

@Atraphoenix: ill try your mod. thanx for instructions

@Marcus Ulpius: Yes, thats why ive quit my Pahlava campaign. Blitzing is fun for me, but just in the beginning: after some time (when i conquer 10-20 provinces) i would like to sit and build without 3 battles per turn, and without that annoying and endless AI armies. So, ive decided to start a new Pahlava campaign, but also ive decided to do some modding on the script, so the AI wont get those huge money bonuses: i hope that will stop it from spawning armies. Like ive already said somewhere elsewhere: script is cool when you play "easy" factions: but when playing Pahlava, IT JUST AINT!

[MerlinusCDXX]

And i want to know: have somebody of you already achieved victory conditions for Pahlava?

I got real close (1 town away- the one on the S Arabian coast- forget what it's called) by 180 BC. I was trying to take it slow though. Then I had to do a complete system reinstall (clean), and my dumb arse lost the thumb drive my saves were on . The key for me was, moving real fast towards Persepolis and taking all adoption/marriage/MotH requests regardless of how bad the traits were and using them as extra cav units, then taking it easy and fast tracking toward reforms. The Pahlava make INSANE amounts of loot once their towns grow and get some good econ bldgs and pop growth.

No cheats except add_money (to other factions) and moderate use of force diplomacy.

[VladiNemir]

Pahlava...The only faction i've been playing for a long time ...The initial rush when ''blitzing'' is priceless,but then i got ''bored'' .I stopped my advance when i held the Arbela-Seleukeia-Babylon-Charax line,because i wanted to have a more balanced game - meaning-not-anihilating AS by 250 BC and the main reason was that i had this unrealistic/utopic wish/desire that Romans might show up near ''those parts'',around 150 BC LOL said to meself:''Damn i wish to see some flying legionaires when my katas crash 'em''...

However,they were nowhere near,not even once (i played pahlava campaign more than 20 times-15 games got F-ed up,by these irritating CTDs because of some problems with family members-guess there were too many+bugs,and me being an idiot)...Anyway...never cheated,till it got really boring -but boring is not the right word... i got frustrated-Having to fight up to 4 or even more fights per turn which i would surely WIN ANYWAY,because you cannot afford to lose that army by automanaging a fight,while AS is crashing in like a freaking maniac---silver shield after silver shild-up yers--caused that i called it a day,because i realised that i should have finished 'em off while it was still ''easy''.

[ChingizLink]

Hmm, I am little bit surprised by the suggestions stated above.

I have played Pahlava campaigns since 0.81v2 on each new EB release and I have tried various stategies to keep the things going, but I have never experienced a situation that would demand cheating. Cheating IMHO completely destroys whatever enjoyment you can get from the game as there would always be the thought in the background of your conscience that you have not stood up to the challenge. In fact, I have found blitz strategies and/or sacking of AS cities as spoiling the game in the long run. I am certainly no masochist, but I find the tight starting years, when one watches the AI turn going in the tense excitement whether a gray or blue or red fullstack appear out of nowhere towards your almost defenceless cities and the triumphal relief when such a menace is crushed by tiny band of horsemen and gund-i-nizagans as the most rewarding experiences of the whole game. And when those starting decades are a mere histor and the royal purple spreads over the world map and a mighty empire is born, that is even better knowinghow this all was hardly won from the most humble beginnings! I love playing as Pahlava!!!

I would sincerely advice to anybody to try to play them slow, no cheats, no blitz, no raiding, no attacking others unless being attacked first. Go slowly, build your economy and the reward will be yours. Patience brings roses, they say...

Geez...somehow this forum has even give your profile a BUZZ KILL's face! : )

I've played as Parthia on RTR and all of the evil variations and submods of it before I played EB. I've spent several turns taking out stupid, annoying rebels who were just outside of my character's reach for one turn. I did the scorched earth thing all over Bactria on Extended Realism with the Metro Naval Mod, and somehow, failed to realize how that the rebels that took back Sogdiana, Merv, etc would all be full stacks of Sarmatian Merc HAs and Heavy Cavalry, complete with fully upgraded weapons/armor and 7-9 experience. And rather than start over, I took them all out (and probably took around 5-6 years off of my life...)

Oh, the fun part? I didn't even know THAT CHEATS EXISTED for RTW until about 4-5 months ago. (I really would have liked that toggle_fow command...)

I agree that just cheating gratuitously like a little kid spoils the fun, but not only is there plenty of room for cheats in a game where...oh, I don't know, every once in awhile you play a 2 hour battle to get rewarded with a CTD, but it can, and does, enhance gameplay for the history fascists among us. The description of how one player emulates a nomad economy above, on page 1, is a perfect example. Personally, I think that many of the construction times are WAY too long, some of them cost way too much (and this is in every mod, and FTR, I haven't run across many such items in EB) and many units have ridiculously high upkeep, so VOILA: the discretionary use of a few cheats later, I am overjoyed.

I found EB after I was pretty burned out with RTW mods, but also around the time that I found about the various cheats, so I tended to spam the BEJEEZUS out of em. (I couldn't get enough of that Parthian Reform...man, that is cool...) That being said, I still played all the ridiculous, one-sided battles, and once I finally got a game going that I was happy with and continued, I cut down on my army to make it reasonable, realistic, and within my ingame budget.

Should they be within my borders, yet outside my characters' movement points, however, I am still gonna use move_character to shoot some brigand trash to pieces...

[ChingizLink]

I'm currently at the very beginning of my Pahlava campaign and it seems that the only way to survive is to expand as fast as possible while AS only sends pantodapoi and akontistai. That's why I think about going forward with that campaign or not. I don't like blitzing and prefer more gradual expansion.

And that is another reason why I found a happy medium with cheats: I can't even bring myself to describe how much of the map I scrounged up within a few turns by, uh...well, basically squeezing alot out of a single turn : ) In my current campaign I'm actually frustrated with the Seleucids' lack of aggression and the wimpy half stacks they kept sending me. (I was playing Medium campaign and Hard battles, now I'm doing Hard/Hard, and thinking about taking the plunge...) I ended up figuring out how to rush the March of Time and the Seleucid Reform, in addition to giving them tons of dough (same with Rome and Macedon...man, Macedonia is REALLY getting its butt kicked in my campaign. It just isn't right! I'd almost prefer the Macedonian juggernaught from ye olde RTR!)

Back to my point, with regards to the Seleucids, I want armageddon, I tell you! And I want it to last well into the second century BC! I want them to be as cheap and evil as they are on RTR (ie full stacks of Macedonian Phalanxes with cataphracts, archers, and several cavalry units showing up every turn) but with the improved gameplay, visuals, and historical detail of EB. And that AI just can't take a hint, I tell you!

[Lazy O]

I think your concept is wrong here, Im playing with Saka Rauka but since theyre almost the same,...

You do not need to cheat. Right from turn one you can go all out smashing anything that comes in your way, FMs with horse archers are impossible to face with Phalanx armies, None of my armies have yet sat down peacefully, theyve been on the move since turn one. I mean, Your a NOMAD, its your LIFE going out far and wide looking for things to kill.