HRE campaign focus points

[gaijinalways]

Yes, I searched and read through the spy related posts concerning happiness (population loyalty is probaby a better label) and yes that will help. Realized it will take a while before I can get there as the castles each take 12 years to build, and then the brothel comes after that (I have built two pubs already). I seem destined to keeping a lot of peasants around, though I suppose I could spam out more woodsmen as their upkeep is lower and I can build them in both Sweden and Norway, which I both currently have.

Progress report

I have preceded to the year 1127, and won a great victory in Toulouse. The Argonese decided to add to my agony (or victories) and attacked with a far lesser number of reemergent troops, but they were much better valored and leveled (try feudal foot knights againist spearmen sometime). Fortunately a few enemy siege engines (which can't move) and regular royal knights helped (as well as my own peasants who disappeared into the woods). I lost over 1100 men to the enemy's 350 plus, but it was worth it by the end of the battle. The next turn I brought in more hardened recruits with better armor and a better general. They easily held in the next battle with much better kill rates, though I can see the Argonese possibly trying again as they still have a fair number of troops left as the Spanish seem to have deposed them from some territory.

I also won an earlier battle in Flanders where the English and the French together attempted to roust me from my emerging trading empire (it now seems to closing in on the rival trading port of Venice, even though the neighboring ports near Flanders don't trade with me). Luckily a nice handy starting defensive position adjacent to woods on either side meant that the enemy cav members couldn't approach my armies easily and enemy archers attempting to cover enemy foot soldiers were useless in the woods. If they tried funneling into the middle open meadow, I quickly cut them down by arrow or sword. This earlier battle was more decisive as the tech on each side was equal at that time (I have better troops there now, though some have been diverted to Toulouse now).

I am attempting to turtle, but everyone seems to be chomping at the bit to attack me. No wonder playing the HRE is such a challenge!

[Jxrc]

I am attempting to turtle, but everyone seems to be chomping at the bit to attack me. No wonder playing the HRE is such a challenge!

Welcome to the hostile world of the Roman Empire.

You are coming close to the point when any faction sharing a border with will attack as soon as possible.

I have played quite a few HRE campaign in the past (not recently since I am a bit lazy when it comes to 3 battles a turn) and the best you can do is always to look for opportunities to shorten your borders and stop to re-build your low-tech armies each time you can. For instance, Aquitaine-Toulouse is a nice line to hold for you especially since once you get those two you can keep your front limited to two provinces each time you progress (Navarre-Aragon; Castille/Valencia; Cordoba/Leon). If you can't hold the Aquitaine-Toulouse line, your enemy will be able to strike at Brittany, Anjou, Burgundy and Provence. You might think that a counter-attack will push them back but it much easier to defend than to attack when you have low-tech troops and you are doomed to be in the Pope's black book at the moment. Same principles can be applied on all front but do no neglect the risk of invasion by sea.

Regarding units to use, I would suggest to go for militia seargents, feudal seargents and mounted crossbowmen. Archers are useful but expensive to maintain. Feudal men-at-arm are nice agaisnt spear but militia sergeants can do the job if used properly, have the ap bonus and fare better against light cavalry. Maintenance cost for feudal seargent is ok and they are much more reliable than vanila spearmen. Mounted crossbowmen are priceless since they can replace most of your archers, chase enemy archers and routers. They lack any serious punch hand-to-hand but unless the enemy has tons of cavalry, your RK should be enough. Of course, mounted seargents are very useful for obvious reasons since they are your first available standard cavalry (no holibar or horsemen for you). Huscarl and swabian swordmen are nice but they cost a lot for an HRE budget. The viking unit that any faction can build in DK, Sweden and Norway with just a fort with moat is nice if you can get a few of those (do not upgrade to a keep in those provinces before having improved your fort).

Best of lucks

[gaijinalways]

I am producing feudal seargents now, seems to be enough to pack a punch. Still have some older unarmored units floating around, though they help out in pinches. Haven't gotten crossbows yet, still in 1158. I have expanded quite a bit by bribery and acccident. Bribed Sardina, Livonia, Lithuania, Prussia, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland. The other places..

I took your advice to heart and decided to take Anjou to help my borders (this after turtling for some 12 years or so to beat a pope warning). Attacked and got a warning from the pope. tried to take Anjou, couldn't and retreated before the excom came. Then went after the English, heard nothing from the Pope, as I pushed the English out of Wessex and Mercia.

Suddenly, the Pope invades Tuscany. Sorry Pope, nothing personal, but you messed with the wrong guy! I went and cleaned the Pope off the pennisula (the Sicilians had been wiped out). Went back to hitting the French, after I had beefed up my forward lines near the Polish and the Hungarians. Just took Anjou and Aquitane, will probably decide which one province to leave the French in. Just also did in the Italians, they decided to attack me after I bribed Sardina (they were holed up in Corsica).

So, I am sitting pretty, have 39 provinces, some money in the bank, trying to get the Byz to agree to a cease fire, other than that, trade is good. I currently hold 1 Ireland, 2 Scotland, 3 Wales, 4 Mercia, 5 Wessex, , 6 Flanders, 7 Champagne, 8 Ile de France, 9 Burgandy, 10 Toulouse, 11Provence, 12 Aquitane, 13 Anjou, 14 Lorraine, 15 Swabia, 16 Switzerland, 17 Tyrolia, 18 Saxony, 19Brandenberg, 20 Denmark, 21 Sweden, 22 Norway, 23Livonia, 24Lithunania, 25 Prussia, 26 Bavaria, 27Bohemia, 28 Austria, 29 Franconia, 30 Venice, 31 Tuscany, 32 Papal Lands, 33 Rome, 34 Naples, 35Sicily, 36 Genoa, 37 Tuscany, 38 Milan, and 39 Sardina.

The Spanish are big (all the GA crusades for me are gone, wah) , but I lead 58 points to the Byz's 44 on GA points (the Spanish are around 41).

So I am wondering what to do next. I hope to just keep building, but I will have to see what my neighbors 'want me' to do.

[Jxrc]

Well I would say that the most obvious options are:

- Northumbria so that you do not need to keep garrison in Mercia and Scotland;
- Brittany, same reason but for Anjou and Aquitaine;
- Normandy to secure Flanders;
- Corsica if the remaining Italian ships are bugging you;
-Poland, Silesia and Pomerania (you will need to attack the Polish but some of those provinces are GA objectives and will help reduce the number of provinces to garrison). After that I would try to go for Kiev and Volhodina (never can remember that province's name - is the poor strip of land immediately East of Poland) and wait for the Golden Horde there. It all depends who go Kiev. If it is owned by the Byz, it can be a tough nut to crack if the Byz have their usual 9 stars princes.

Basically I think that you've pretty much won the game unless you do something silly (for instance there is no reason to start crusades now, if you still have crusade markers you them for safe target and do not build any new ones).

From a more general point of view, I would suggest to upgrade you agriculture every time you can afford (even in poor provinces to get your king the V&V). Trade is nice but there is a good chance that in few years time nobody will trade with you because you'll be at war with everyone (whether you want it or not).

Regarding faction that are almost dead but that you want to keep alive, I would suggest that the best place to keep them blocked is a province that has only one border with yours and where they cannot build any ship (because the faction is broke or the province landlocked). If the faction still has more than a few ships, I would suggest to eradicate it, it will save you the trouble for chasing their ships for ages with your trade disrupted. They will not come back as long as you keep 120% loyalty in all the provinces that they ever had (the Pope will come back whatever you do so no need to put a massive garrison in its former holdings, it will just increase the amount of troops he will come back with. The best option for the Pope is usually to let him rot in the Papal States with an army big enough to avoid rebels appearance but weak enough to be disregarded for all other purposes.

Finally, to face the GH, you will basically need Chivalric sergeants and halberdiers (beware of their low morale, monastery or chapter house required for the province where you build them), arbalesters and some cavalry to chase Mongol archers (mounted X-bows are not good enough; mounted sergeants are a minimum). Do not chase Mongol archers in woods, they could butcher you cavalry there.

Hope it helps

[gaijinalways]

A few points to consider,

I agree with you that, leaving factions in land locked provinces is better, but one problem is where factions reemerge. I accidentally eliminated the French, and now I'm not sure where they will reemerge (I intended to simply trim them down so they wouldn't be a bother for a while, but things got out of hand). (so I took Aquitaine, britay, normandy)

Hence Northumbria is okay for the English at the moment. Incidentally, I lost Wessex to the rebels as well, don't know how that happened. I won a big battle that turn, so I will let it stay with the rebels for the moment. The Italians were eliminated, but they're back on Corsica, but I'm busy trying to crush the Byz.

It's tough as I don't have xbows yet, except for some xbow cavs. Even so, i drove them around a bit and raged their areas, tking Constantinople, Greece, and Bulgaria from them. Actually the Hungarians and the Polish serve a purpose, serving as a buffer zone and keeping the Byz away from me except near Lithuania and the provinces I just took. The Turks are also giving the Byz some problems, now acting as a buffer east of Constantinople. They crusaded aganist the Byz into Nicaea, though wait until they find out that most of that surrounding area is becoming Catholic (my bishops have been busy), they may not like the locals getting roudy.

I have reduced the Spanish to whimpering with the Egyptians and the Alomonds having reemerged in the midst of their provinces in Northern Africa, and I can see rebellions in several other places (a failed crusade didn't help). They do still have several provinces, but they are much weaker now (still tough, my last regular battle in Navarre with them was rough, with about even losses on both sides).

As to the Mongols, I think I will let someone else face the horde, as that will give me time to tech up and bring my farming further along. It's very true, the peace doesn't last long (I'm way ahead on GA points now, so I can afford not taking any more provinces at the moment).

Yes, crusading is a possibility again, but I don't have to do it except for entertainment. One persistent problem is the Pope, who now has come back for the 5th time in the Papal Staes and Napoli, a little bigger each time. He is rather annoying, those grand inquisitors would come in handy about now. Good battles, but I don't seem to get any ransom for him, quite the shame.

[Jxrc]

Well, I do not see why you are so reluctant to get rid of a faction.
As long as your keep 120% loyalty in all your provinces you will never see them again (unless some of their old provinces are occupied by the AI but that will most of the time be the AI's problem then). Normally two units of peasants and watchtowers are enough to avoid any surprise (except for some provinces like Livonia, Scotland or Portugal that are notoriously rebellion-prone). You also need to make sure that your faction leader is connected to all your provinces by land or sea so be careful of those rogue ships that just move around to mess with your communication line. At first glance, I would say that the penalty for not being connected with your faction leader is probably something like 50%. Once your kingdom is huge, stop using your king as a general just to avoid the risk that he gets isolated. Especially do not use one of the AI's silliest move that involves attacking by sea a provinces without port (for instance Ireland), even if the provinces has a port this remains a no-go since the port may be destroyed when you storm the keep (if you do get in that position, bribe the garrison to keep the infrastructure intact - if there is just a few guys in the keep, an assassin can achieve the same result, less expensive but it takes longer). Even if a faction does not have any cash left, it will keep getting heirs and will eventually have an army entirely made of RK. They are not to hard to deal with but can be an annoyance if all the heirs have v&v such as pride, killer instinct, etc.

Keeping dying faction on life support to provide you with princesses might be an idea but since you play the HRE, you will always have a faction leader whatever happens. On top of that you will have a very hard time getting them to accept any marriage proposal that you would make since you'll be at war with those factions.

The Pope will keep coming back and each time he will have more troops. If he shows up in one provinces a good way to deal with him is to abandon the province first, the counter-attack the next round, win and let him run away to the keep. You will have downsized his army a great deal and he will no longer be a threat. Of course you will be excommunicated but it's not that bad. If I have to chose a province to keep him, I would chose the Papal State since it is not a GA goal and does not produce any great income (title is nice but there as many other that also give an extra star). You cannot get rid of the Pope with assassins and inquisitor. If the Pope is assassinated or burnt, a new one will be elected and no result will ensue. On the other hand, it's a good way to put an end to your excommunication. Finally, I will add that if you are highly motivated, you can fully eradicate the Pope each time he comes back just to train your princes. Usually he comes back with high tech troops but with too many catapults and no command star so that the battle can be won rather easily (especially if you uses loads of arbs for an obvious purpose). I did it once and got a nice family of field expert specialists but it is a rather time consuming process, especially one you are at war on other fronts already.

Goes without saying that it's of course entirely up to you to choose the way ahead that looks the most entertaining to you. As far as I am concerned, I my long-term goal is often to have all Europe in black (except the Papal States of course …) with Constantinople, Kiev/Novgorod, Aquitaine/Toulouse (or Navarra/Argon or Cordoba or Morocco) as my border provinces … Makes four or five provinces to protect from the "barbarians" and the rest can be guarded by peasants (with an adequate army at hand to send back the Pope to the Papal States if need be) . It does not mean that it's the only possible way (crusade before 1205 can be tempting but I always find them to expensive and difficult to hold for long when playing the HRE) but one of the central idea when playing the HRE is IMHO to always look if the addition of one or several provinces increases or reduces the number of provinces to guard.

Best of luck for the remainder of your campaign.

[gaijinalways]

Well, I do not see why you are so reluctant to get rid of a faction.
As long as your keep 120% loyalty in all your provinces you will never see them again (unless some of their old provinces are occupied by the AI but that will most of the time be the AI's problem then). Normally two units of peasants and watchtowers are enough to avoid any surprise (except for some provinces like Livonia, Scotland or Portugal that are notoriously rebellion-prone). You also need to make sure that your faction leader is connected to all your provinces by land or sea so be careful of those rogue ships that just move around to mess with your communication line. At first glance, I would say that the penalty for not being connected with your faction leader is probably something like 50%.

I seem to still get remergences on expert level regardless of the loyalty ratings. I always check to make sure my province loylty ratings are 120% and above, but I've still had remerging factions in some very unlikely places.

The Pope will keep coming back and each time he will have more troops. If he shows up in one provinces a good way to deal with him is to abandon the province first, the counter-attack the next round, win and let him run away to the keep. You will have downsized his army a great deal and he will no longer be a threat.

Yeah, I seem to be 'lucky', the pope keeps dying on the battlefield.

Of course you will be excommunicated but it's not that bad

.

The bad thing is that all your loyalty ratings in your provinces take a hit, so it can mean less income and a bigger struggle to keep things afloat. Also, any Christian faction not at war with you will usually hurry to attack the 'infidels' to appease the Pope!

If I have to chose a province to keep him, I would chose the Papal State since it is not a GA goal and does not produce any great income (title is nice but there as many other that also give an extra star).

You're right, but he doesn't seem to want it.

You cannot get rid of the Pope with assassins and inquisitor. If the Pope is assassinated or burnt, a new one will be elected and no result will ensue. On the other hand, it's a good way to put an end to your excommunication.

Sounds good to me (see above comment on the woes of excommunication)!

Finally, I will add that if you are highly motivated, you can fully eradicate the Pope each time he comes back just to train your princes. Usually he comes back with high tech troops but with too many catapults and no command star so that the battle can be won rather easily (especially if you uses loads of arbs for an obvious purpose). I did it once and got a nice family of field expert specialists but it is a rather time consuming process, especially one you are at war on other fronts already.

Hmm, that seems to be happening already as the lapses between Popes seem to be shorter and shorter.

Usually he comes back with high tech troops but with too many catapults and no command star so that the battle can be won rather easily (especially if you uses loads of arbs for an obvious purpose).

Actually, he's coming with fairly high command stars (5-7) and mostly feudal knights, some foot troops, and a quite a few archers. Killing off the knights takes the most time, and they are dangerous as they are very quick to attack any isolated units that I have. These feudal knights will attack either after regouping or after trying to lead foot units away from their brothers in arms.

In my last battle, there were also rebel troops (I have upped the spies in the provinces the Pope usually lands in). I was sandwiched in the middle later, with the rebels sometimes helping out, sometimes attacking me. I mistakenly thought I had a small unit of Italian soldiers routed (down from 100 to 21), but they and some hobilers attacked. Unluckily, I had let all my footmen drift away to keep an eye on the Pope's knights and my 2 units of archers got stomped, though they did lead the hobs into a trap eventually by fleeing back toward my men. I also used my xbow cavs to good result, using them to knock off archers, though many of mine later got killed (exhausted ponies, they were). Related with my last problem, I have tried to build more archer and horse farms for training more xbow cavs until regular xbows become available. Still haven't received any yet, but they are available in 1205. I think I'm in the late 1180s now, and patiently waiting for xbows and arbs.

My bigger problem now is trying to balance the budget, think I need to go on a war tour and trim my enemy troops and mine down while reaping the pleasure of seized booty! Hopefully I will have some emerging rebels who will be willing to trade with me and my tarnished reputation.

Thanks for all the advice so far Jxrc!