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Thread: End-game yawns... [hopes for the upcoming gameplay patch]

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    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default End-game yawns... [hopes for the upcoming gameplay patch]

    The other day I got all the long-VH-campaign requirements for Prussia around 1760. that happened in a game where I purposely shot myself in my feet (both of them!) a couple times at the beginning of the campaign. To be honest, it was the first time I played to this point, fulfilling the campaign requirements completely. I have to note I was especially 'gentle' with other European nations, taking care to expand only where the campaign goals required me to expand and picking the remaining 25-count provinces from pirates, etc.

    So, up comes the system message "Congratulations, you've fulfilled the campaign requiremens, blah, blah, blah... If you keep what you have until 1799 you'll win the game..." Great, I thought, the 'system' must be saying this with an evil grin. The AI will raise hell now.

    I press the 'end-turn-button'...

    And, voila!... 1-province Venice (a long term trading partner with 'very friendly relationship') declares war on the 25-province Prussia. Not the 20-something province Russia*, which has taken Ottoman territories all the way to Bosphorus and a chunk of former Austrian holdings; not the Spanish who have the greatest fleet, not the British (who have done quite well in the Americas). No... it's the 1-province Venice who decides to 'punish' me for my wanton expansion. Sure, that backstabbing pinched a bit: after all, I had granted Venice military access and they had some militia units camping out in my Austrian holdings before they declared the war. Anyway, Prussian dragoons are not far...

    Hope the new gameplay patch fixes this.

    --
    * interestingly enough, AI Russia did expand all the way to Bosphorus, but neglected to take Georgia and Dagestan, which supposedly are on their list of 'things to do'...
    Last edited by Slaists; 04-24-2009 at 14:58.

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    Member Member anweRU's Avatar
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    Default Re: End-game yawns... [hopes for the upcoming gameplay patch]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaists View Post
    Hope the new gameplay patch fixes this.
    If we go by METW2, the new patch will fix it by having all AI factions declare war on the player.

    I've taking to playing the short campaign, so I can finish it before the game goes to CTD heaven or I lose interest. Even then, I only managed to finish only one campaign to the "official" end so far...
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    Heir to the Scottish Throne Member Relic's Avatar
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    Default Re: End-game yawns... [hopes for the upcoming gameplay patch]

    Hopefully they'll add "Remove Forces" Option to the game, allowing the diplomatic order to remove the armies from your provinces.
    Last edited by Relic; 04-25-2009 at 15:53.

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    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: End-game yawns... [hopes for the upcoming gameplay patch]

    Quote Originally Posted by Relic View Post
    Hopefully they'll a "Remove Forces" Option to the game, allowing the diplomatic order to remove the armies from your provinces.
    Well, technically I do not see an issue with the current system. Venice did have military access before they declared war. So, they were just sneaky. Probably, they should get a diplomatic hit for attacking someone they have military access to. That's a different matter.

    Otherwise, they game allows ones troops to be in another faction's territory only either if 1) there is a military access agreement, 2) the factions are at war.

    I think, the option you're talking about is already in the game. If someone has military access to your provinces and you don't like their troops there just cancel military access in the diplomacy screen. I believe the other faction's troops will be kindly 'transported' off your turf.

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    Member Member Mr Frost's Avatar
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    Default Re: End-game yawns... [hopes for the upcoming gameplay patch]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaists View Post
    Well, technically I do not see an issue with the current system. Venice did have military access before they declared war. So, they were just sneaky. Probably, they should get a diplomatic hit for attacking someone they have military access to. That's a different matter.

    Otherwise, they game allows ones troops to be in another faction's territory only either if 1) there is a military access agreement, 2) the factions are at war.

    I think, the option you're talking about is already in the game. If someone has military access to your provinces and you don't like their troops there just cancel military access in the diplomacy screen. I believe the other faction's troops will be kindly 'transported' off your turf.
    Using military access to set up a "sneak" attack deep in another factions' territory is something that really needs removing . Given that setting up an invasion took a long time and a lot of preparation {not to mention a lot of people nkowing the plan beforehand} it wasn't something that could be pulled off against any opponant with any sort of military and political power {which describes every starting European faction in game} without them realising what was happening and the diplomatic repercusions were not inconsequential .
    The A.I. seems incapable of defending against it in any way and its' just plain cheesy to see the A.I. waltz full stacks through your territory from city to city like gangbangers "shopping" even though they need your alliance etc .

    The mechanics to fix it are already in place : declaring war should atuomatically eject any of the agressors' troops from the defenders' territory so any attack must proceed from an "even" start .
    I'm wondering if it can even be modded in by ourselves when the modding tools are released ?
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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: End-game yawns... [hopes for the upcoming gameplay patch]

    No, going back is not realistic in the slightest. Go to diplomacy "cancel military access" and thee you go, done.
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    Default Re: End-game yawns... [hopes for the upcoming gameplay patch]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Frost View Post
    Using military access to set up a "sneak" attack deep in another factions' territory is something that really needs removing . Given that setting up an invasion took a long time and a lot of preparation {not to mention a lot of people nkowing the plan beforehand} it wasn't something that could be pulled off against any opponant with any sort of military and political power {which describes every starting European faction in game} without them realising what was happening and the diplomatic repercusions were not inconsequential .
    The A.I. seems incapable of defending against it in any way and its' just plain cheesy to see the A.I. waltz full stacks through your territory from city to city like gangbangers "shopping" even though they need your alliance etc .

    The mechanics to fix it are already in place : declaring war should atuomatically eject any of the agressors' troops from the defenders' territory so any attack must proceed from an "even" start .
    I'm wondering if it can even be modded in by ourselves when the modding tools are released ?
    Well, Napoleon pulled this trick off when he invaded Spain... Spain and France were at war with Portugal, and Spain gave the french military access so they could reach Portuguese territory. From wikipedia:

    Under the pretext of reinforcing the Franco-Spanish army occupying Portugal, French Imperial troops began filing into Spain, where the populace greeted them with enthusiasm in spite of growing diplomatic unease. In February 1808, Napoleon ordered the French commanders to seize key Spanish fortresses, and in doing so he had officially turned on his ally. A French column, disguised as a convoy of wounded, took Barcelona on February 29 by persuading the authorities to open the city's gates. Many commanders were not particularly concerned about the fate of the ruling regime, nor were they in any position to fight. (When Brigadier Alvarez garrisoned the Barcelona citadel against the French, his own superiors ordered him to stand down.)

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    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: End-game yawns... [hopes for the upcoming gameplay patch]

    Well it is odd that the little guys tried to take you on.

    I guess we will see what happens with those issues next week. With all the changes it may be a new game anyway.

    I thought your thread was about the end of game video. I have seen two flavors. Republic and Absolute Monarchy. I didnít play the British to the bitter end. Also I donít know, it may have been three campaigns, I thought I was playing for a prestige victory only to find that it was some how set to short campaign and I got the message that you have lost, return to main menu, or keep playing. That ticked me off, let me tell you!


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    Heir to the Scottish Throne Member Relic's Avatar
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    Question Re: End-game yawns... [hopes for the upcoming gameplay patch]

    Quote Originally Posted by alrom View Post
    Well, Napoleon pulled this trick off when he invaded Spain... Spain and France were at war with Portugal, and Spain gave the french military access so they could reach Portuguese territory. From wikipedia:
    That would be an interesting factor to add... the loyalty of garrison units.

    There could be a chance based off numerous factors such as Government type, Friendly-Enemy Ratio and whether or not they have a General (and his rank).

    ...As the current AI seems to be suicidally trigger happy...

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    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: End-game yawns... [hopes for the upcoming gameplay patch]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    Well it is odd that the little guys tried to take you on.

    I guess we will see what happens with those issues next week. With all the changes it may be a new game anyway.

    I thought your thread was about the end of game video. I have seen two flavors. Republic and Absolute Monarchy. I didnít play the British to the bitter end. Also I donít know, it may have been three campaigns, I thought I was playing for a prestige victory only to find that it was some how set to short campaign and I got the message that you have lost, return to main menu, or keep playing. That ticked me off, let me tell you!
    Well, short campaign is the default campaign type in the main menu. Could it be that by accident you failed to chang it?

  11. #11
    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: End-game yawns... [hopes for the upcoming gameplay patch]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaists View Post
    Well, short campaign is the default campaign type in the main menu. Could it be that by accident you failed to chang it?
    That is what I thought the first time, but now I am not so sure. I know I selected it because I read and reviewed the differences.

    I am not that carelessÖbut it changed some how.

    But that is not an issue for here.

    Has anyone seen if there is a separate video for constitutional monarchy? I could go back to the old save game of the British but I donít feel like trudging on for so many years just to see a clip.


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    Member Member anweRU's Avatar
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    Default Re: End-game yawns... [hopes for the upcoming gameplay patch]

    I saw only one end video - a CM for my Sweden campaign. The King gives a short speech at parliament, talking about how he and the people worked together, then you have the fireworks, and troops marching & ships sailing as the King say something about thanking the valiant soldiers. I assume the other two you saw were variations of the same video.
    Last edited by anweRU; 04-27-2009 at 14:10.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: End-game yawns... [hopes for the upcoming gameplay patch]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaists View Post
    Well, technically I do not see an issue with the current system. Venice did have military access before they declared war. So, they were just sneaky. Probably, they should get a diplomatic hit for attacking someone they have military access to. That's a different matter.

    Otherwise, they game allows ones troops to be in another faction's territory only either if 1) there is a military access agreement, 2) the factions are at war.

    I think, the option you're talking about is already in the game. If someone has military access to your provinces and you don't like their troops there just cancel military access in the diplomacy screen. I believe the other faction's troops will be kindly 'transported' off your turf.
    I thought this worked generally pretty well, but in my Russian campaign there are four Polish full stacks deep within my borders and I removed military access 25 turns earlier (Poland cancelled the alliance when Courland declared war on maybe turn 4).

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