EU profiler.

[KukriKhan]

Thats Declan Ganleys one man show party , Libertas .

SF was my nearest on europe , if you took a line from Kukris centre point at about 320 deg its where it hits the ege of his range

Ah, so Libertas is Ganley's vanity party. A couple excerpts for the Wikipedia article on him:

... and said that Europe needs a constitution of no more than 25 pages which needs to be upfront and honest in what it sets out to achieve, and that all of Europe must be given a vote on it.

That seems reasonable, and democratic to me. But then, I'm not a European.

Many Galwegians do not agree with his decision that he is now Irish and wish he would go back to England and stop embarrassing their county and country by pretending he is from there.

He seems to have a bit of trouble satisfying several financial disclosure requirements for his supposedly "grassroots" party.

Good Luck Irishers & Europeans. It'll work out eventually. A simpler document, garnering at least two-thirds "Yeas" across your continent could work out to your benefit.

[woad&fangs]

I played as a Brit. Aside from the "law and order" section, I match the Conservative party almost exactly.

[CountArach]

Alright here are my results (Putting myself down as a dirty, dirty Pom):

LibDems are my closest party in terms of the EU integration, but in terms of domestic policy it is The Greens. Overally it is 59.8% Greens and 56.7% LibDems.

My nearest party in Europe are the Iniciativa per Catalunya Verds (Initiative for Catalonia Greens), followed by teh Portuguese Humanist Party and then other various Socialist and Communist parties.

[Craterus]

Between the Green Party and the Tories. Will likely vote LD though, despite their pro-Euro policies.

[JAG]

72.8% match for the Lib Dems and Greens - with the Lib Dems being the party they suggest I am nearest to - funnily enough voted for them last time, won't this time because of their increasingly nasty comments about the EU.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Well, nationally it tells me "Freie Wähler" or free voters, if that's a party, I haven't heard of it yet, it wasn't in the graph I think, no party was in my circle nationally.

They just won 21 seats in the Bavarian Landtag.

EDIT: Which makes them the third largest party in there.

[Tribesman]

Banquo , what did you think of the referendum question in the link?
I wonder if anyone from Ireland answered no , which of course would require a referendum

[Kralizec]

Can't speak for the other nationalities, but for the Dutch they did a lousy job. I'm in the middle between the Socialist party, the Party for Animals, Labour and our religious fringe parties.

[Incongruous]

Well?

Yes, I support the fascists, and in doing so would gladly rob myself of the right to call myself an Englishman...

I don't think you understood the structure of that quizz very well, did you?

You notice I disagree 100% with the BNP's social outlook, and to be honest the questions on immigration were too vague and too few to allow one a proper indication of where they sit on the political spectrum.

I am closest to the Tories, if you look closely.

[InsaneApache]

72.8% match for the Lib Dems and Greens - with the Lib Dems being the party they suggest I am nearest to - funnily enough voted for them last time, won't this time because of their increasingly nasty comments about the EU.

I thought you were a card carrying member of the Labour Party?

[tibilicus]

Yes, I support the fascists, and in doing so would gladly rob myself of the right to call myself an Englishman...

I don't think you understood the structure of that quizz very well, did you?

You notice I disagree 100% with the BNP's social outlook, and to be honest the questions on immigration were too vague and too few to allow one a proper indication of where they sit on the political spectrum.

I am closest to the Tories, if you look closely.

Ah right, it's just you said "not surprised" which suggested to me that you weren't surprised because you would normally support them. If you read your first post I think you'll find you were a bit misleading, to me it seemed like you were indicating that's where your nominal political views fell.

But w/e no need to be snarky..

We're cool.

[Incongruous]

Ah right, it's just you said "not surprised" which suggested to me that you weren't surprised because you would normally support them. If you read your first post I think you'll find you were a bit misleading, to me it seemed like you were indicating that's where your nominal political views fell.

But w/e no need to be snarky..

We're cool.

I was not being misleading, you allowed your feelings to carry you away onto some line of thought which allowed you to think that a person whom can claim Jewish and Magyar ancestry would vote for a bunch of rascists like the BNP

I take it very seriuosly when someone believes I am a fascist.

But, yeah its cool.

[tibilicus]

I was not being misleading, you allowed your feelings to carry you away onto some line of thought which allowed you to think that a person whom can claim Jewish and Magyar ancestry would vote for a bunch of rascists like the BNP

I take it very seriuosly when someone believes I am a fascist.

But, yeah its cool.

Don't really think I allowed my feelings to get carried away, my posting mentality was pretty much cool as a cucumber. Was just wondering, ya know.

Not once did I call you a fascist either, nor did I imply I believed you were one, I was just wondering where your political stance lied seeming most people have posted where their EU position was then the political party they support. You just said you weren't surprised however, hence the reason I asked ..

I found it misleading. But hey, you've now made it clear where your political views lie..

If I Knew my question would invoke such a reaction from you I wouldn't of asked, but ah well water under the bridge and what not. Sorry.

[JAG]

I thought you were a card carrying member of the Labour Party?

I am.. But for the last EU elections I voted for the Lib Dems.

Guess I could get into trouble for that, but it was a protest vote coupled with the Lib Dems actually representing my views on the EU far more than Labour.

[Fragony]

83% PVV, my boy.

English test, somewhere between the BNP and the UKIP

http://www.ukip.org/ I like

[Louis VI the Fat]

For the sake of comparison, I took the UK (England) test. The result was that I should vote BNP.


Duh, no it wasn't. I got the result I expected, Liberal Democrats. It also appears I'm closer to Labour than I'd care to know...

[Louis VI the Fat]

I will naturally vote MoDem. (click for link)

MoDem is part of the EDP (European Democratic Party). The EDP is losely allied with it's transatlantic ideological kin, the US Democratic Party. No UK party fits the bill. See below for your country's affiliated party.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The European Democratic Party (EDP) is a centrist European political party in favour of European integration. It was initiated on April 16, 2004 and formally founded on December 9 in Brussels. François Bayrou of the Union for French Democracy (UDF) and Francesco Rutelli of Italy's Democracy is Freedom – The Daisy serve as the first two co-presidents.

The EDP was founded in reaction to the rising influence of eurosceptic parties within European institutions. It drew pro-European centrist parties from the European People's Party to form a new centrist multinational bloc.

The reformism is another the principal standard of the party and in fact the PDE assembles center reformists in a transverse way, either if they are of social Christian or social-democratic or a mixture does not matter.

Its cofounder François Bayrou described it as a party for people being neither conservative nor socialist, like the United States Democratic Party.

Current members' parties are:

Belgium

Citizens' Movement for Change (Mouvement des Citoyens pour le Changement)
Cyprus

European Party (Ευρωπαϊκό Κόμμα), formerly New Horizons (Νέοι Ορίζοντες)
Czech Republic

Path of Change (Cesta změny)
Spain & France:

Basque Nationalist Party (Euzko Alderdi Jeltzalea)
France

Democratic Movement (Mouvement démocrate), formerly Union for French Democracy (Union pour la Démocratie Française)
Italy

Democracy is Freedom – The Daisy (La Margherita - Democrazia è Libertà)a
Lithuania

Labour Party (Darbo Partija)
San Marino

Popular Alliance (Alleanza Popolare)
aNow merged into the Democratic Party (Partito democratico)

Additionally, other independent MEP's have also integrated into the EDP:

Ireland

Marian Harkin, Independent MEP

I am very much in favour of a merger with the ELDR (Parti européen des libéraux, démocrates et réformateurs), into one large, liberal, moderate party, the Alliance des Démocrates et des Libéraux pour l'Europe. This would create a common centrist party to include the likes of, amongst others, the German FDP and the British Liberal Democrats.

[Louis VI the Fat]

It's good fun to do the different national tests. The same basic thirty questions are asked, with two more country-specific ones. They really show national pre-occupations:

France: the impact of globalisation on the social and egalitarian society

Belgium: the functioning of the federal state

Germany: should the (former) communist party be allowed into a federal coalition? And nuclear energy.

Ireland: EU referendum and public finances

UK (England): the two specifically British questions were:
All residents of the UK should be required to have a national ID card in order to help fight terrorism, tackle identity fraud, prevent illegal working and improve border controls
The expansion of airports in England should be encouraged so as to create jobs and boost competitiveness

Spain: autonomy and (de)centralization of national government.

[Louis VI the Fat]

... and said that Europe needs a constitution of no more than 25 pages which needs to be upfront and honest in what it sets out to achieve, and that all of Europe must be given a vote on it.

That seems reasonable, and democratic to me. But then, I'm not a European.

Good Luck Irishers & Europeans. It'll work out eventually. A simpler document, garnering at least two-thirds "Yeas" across your continent could work out to your benefit.

Me, I oppose a EU constitution.

The EU is not a federation. It is not a confederation. It is, in fact, not a state of any form. A constitution would be a mistake.

The EU has a number of treaties, allowing it to function as a supranational institution. What the EU needed - and still desperately needs! - is a codification of these treaties into a coherent, functioning whole. This is what Lisbon is about. This is what the 'constitution' should've been about in the first place. What went wrong, is that they put Valéry Giscard d’Estaing in charge of overseeing the codification of the European Treaties. This put him into too tempting a position. He decided to grasp this opportunity to immortality, and renamed his codification work a 'constitution'. This, he hoped, would guarantee him a position as 'Founding Father' for posterity.

Alas, the word constitution set ablaze the Eurosceptic movement. The end result is that they make any re-working of the existing treaties impossible, thinking that they are fighting a constitution, while in reality, they are preventing the cleaning up of unworkable aspects of the EU. Ironically, much of which would solve some of the main problems of the EU in the first place.


As for a referendum. I'd prefer not. Treaties are the work of compromise, of intricate negotiations between 27 independent states. Hence there can be no workable national referenda. There can be no Europe-wide referendum in the first place, for two obvious reasons: the sovereignity of smaller states like Ireland and Danmark would be brutalised by the large states. And secondly, the EU must respect that national constitutions do not allow for a referendum. (For a prime example: Germany).

[KukriKhan]

I begin to see, I think. What is sought (or what you propose) is NOT a United States of Europe, ala the USA, nor a Confederation ala Canada - in fact, such seemingly copy-cat imitations rub Europeans the wrong way, and work against unity - but more like the idealized (but never realized) Union of Socialist Republics. A UIESR (union of independent european socialist republics), so to speak.

I agree, a continent-wide referendum would be unwieldy and unfair. Maybe nation-wide referenda with each current nation having equal weight?

Anyway, the way forward: scrap Lisbon, and start over, or try to fix broken Lisbon; in your opinion?

[Louis VI the Fat]

Anyway, the way forward: scrap Lisbon, and start over, or try to fix broken Lisbon; in your opinion?

Me, I'd just shove it down these insolent Irish' throats and

'Lisbon' is a reasonable treaty. It is pretty much the existing treaties polished up, with new provisions to deal with the doubling in size of the EU. It is up to internal Irish politics to see what will happen to it. (And the Czechs)
If it is rejected, we shall have to learn to live with a useless EU for the foreseeable future.
'Useless' not in the meaning of 'small, impotent EU' that Eurosceptics dream of, but useless as 'this current incompetent, unwielding mess that just shoves money around'. The EU is not legally equipped to deal with its own dysfunctioning. And this dysfunctioning is the very reason why it can't reform itself into a functioning, democrtatically controlled institution. Oh well...

the idealized (but never realized) Union of Socialist Republics. A UIESR (union of independent european socialist republics), so to speak.

I object to the description of the EU in terminology such as 'idealised Union of Socialist Republics'. I realise that you do not refer to the actual USSR, but to the propaganda version of it, that of happy independent states. But even so, semantics is important. They shape people's perception of reality. And the other way around - is it entirely coincidental that you verbally associated the EU with the USSR?

The EU is a supranational organisation of independent, mature democratic states. Indeed, it is one of the main engines behind the spread of democracy in Europe over the past half a century.
In favour of more US States Rights or not, one does not call the US federation an 'idealized Fourth Reich'. For or against, one doesn't speak of NAFTA as the US 'seeking Lebensraum'. Pro-independence or not, one does not call Alaska's joining of the Union a few decades ago an 'idealized Anschluss'.

Please do not fall for the trappings of the more hysterical anti-EU crowd. One can be vehemently opposed to the EU and still avoid recourse to their terminology. Terminology, that is at once sinister and infantile.
Likewise, one can disagree with the course of the US foreign policy of recent years, and still remain well clear of describing America as a fascist monster, or the 'Great Satan'.

[KukriKhan]

I sustain your objection. I intended no insult to the EU or its people, but such was the apparent result. Sorry.

To be clear: I was/am searching for a govornmental model or models from the past to imagine what an ideal European Union would look like. Most of Europe's nations are Socialist to one degree or another (and I assert no objection to that), so I tried to wrap my hands around the ideas of " a supranational organisation of independent, mature democratic states", and better understand the implications of your use of the words: mature, independent and democratic.

I sense those words mean something different to you than they do to me.

[Furunculus]

we don't all agree with Louis.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I intended no insult to the EU

Most of Europe's nations are Socialist to one degree or another

You don't need to aplogize, Kukri. I know what you meant. I objected to political semantics. For another example, just to be more of a pest and further make your life miserable, there are precisely zero socialist EU members. The EU prevents membership of 'socialist' states.

Semantics indeed. But semantics are important. They shape people's perception of reality.

we don't all agree with Louis.

Unlike Kukri, you, however, do owe me an apology for this. The nerve!1!

[InsaneApache]

I don't agree with you either. Although I find you a fully agreeable chap.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I intended no insult to the EU or its people, but such was the apparent result. Sorry.

It wasn't insulting. Some of us happen to agree with you.

[KukriKhan]

You don't need to aplogize, Kukri. I know what you meant. I objected to political semantics. For another example, just to be more of a pest and further make your life miserable, there are precisely zero socialist EU members. The EU prevents membership of 'socialist' states.

Semantics indeed. But semantics are important. They shape people's perception of reality.

Oh, I see. There is hyper-sensitivity to the term "socialist" because of previous bad experience with people who called themselves soviet socialists, and national socialists. Correct? So we have to call it something else.

"Mature Democratic" leaves a lot to the imagination, but I see where you're going with it, implying a more nuanced evolution over time of democracy. But it doesn't make a snappy acronym.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Oh, I see. There is hyper-sensitivity to the term "socialist"

I AM NOT HYPERSENTI...uh, I mean, I didn't mind what you wrote so much as that I find the continual description of the EU as a national-fascist communist superstate getting a bit tedious.

It's just not all that refined. By all means, dislike the EU with a passion and get your country out if that's your opinion. But hysteria and infantilia I find tedious. Likewise, Republicans are not fascists, Democrats are not commie terrorists. That's just tedious.

Even if you did not compare the EU to the USSR, I objected to the (subconscious) creeping upwards of this sort of terminology into the thoughtworld of more mature discourse.

Speaking of 'mature', in the phrase mature democracies I use it as just a byword for 'stable, well-functioning, moderate' democracy. The US is, Australia, Japan, Western Europe, Eastern Europe to a fair and increasing extent.

[Furunculus]

it is not that i believe that the EU is a facist/communist authoritarian superstate, rather i believe that will be the inevitable result of the current attempts to federate the current union of states into a single political entity.

the lack of representation, and the lack of 'family' association, between the voter and the holder of office will lead to a more authoritarian state, something which will be necessary to hold together the fractious parts as they deal with the consequences of an economic and legal model made for all and suitable for none.

[Furunculus]

Vote Match
http://www.votematch.co.uk/

My score:
UK Independence Party 65/71
Libertas 46/71
Conservative Party 38/71

apparently i should vote UKIP.................