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Thread: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    There you have it, the authentic voice of the left in the UK admits that the BNP is actually left of Labour:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/europe/2...-party-british

    I have been arguing for some time that the BNP have nothing to do with right-wing politics, but it is always to good a talking point from left-wing commentators to introduce discussion on the BNP as the party from the far right of politics.
    This has been patently evident from where the BNP derive their core vote, and the fact that inner c-ty labour heaertland is the place that gets bled for new BNP votes, but why let truth get in the way of thing?

    It looks like the New Statesmen wishes to introduce a little intellectual honesty into the debate.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

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    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    If you strip away the xenophodia and racism then yes, what you have is a socialist program. As I said previously, fascism and socialism, two cheeks of the same arse.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

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    Ultimate Member tibilicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Not really surprising they get a lot of votes from inner city areas due to the fact they are National Socialists. In fact, they are probably the only party with socialist ideals left who could potentially win some votes. Then again Socialism is a dead movement in the UK, so the fact that most of the UK is only interested voting for moderate centre parties means that the BNP will never make any strong headway in turning the electorate. I would be surprised if they even manage to pull the 5% vote needed to get the deposit back for your party, no far right party ever has.

    Besides, I think a substantial amount of people aren't on the same wave length with the BNP thinking. If your going to vote for a party which was founded by a Nazi and continues to be run by some one who denies the extent of the holocaust, well your an idiot.


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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    If you strip away the xenophodia and racism then yes, what you have is a socialist program. As I said previously, fascism and socialism, two cheeks of the same arse.

    So now that we pretty much admit that fascism and Socialism are part and parcel of the left, what is "the Far Right?
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 04-25-2009 at 14:59.
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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Here we go again... but this time I'll write up something well-sourced that explains why Fascism is not a movement of the Left. I have the day off tomorrow to pour over my Fascism and Anti-Fascism Uni sourcebooks. I knew that course would come in handy!
    Last edited by CountArach; 04-25-2009 at 15:00.
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    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    The problem is, you cannot talk or look at the BNP without confronting the two tun elephant in the room. They are a racist party. It is like saying, well without the environmental policies of the Green party, they are a socialist party! Sure, economic policy that is set forward by the BNP are to the left of Labour, it is socialist - nationalisation and funding of services. But they are racist in every way of the word, moreover they are not an honest party - how in this clearly globalised world can you say - I don't like your culture and you people, stay away from me. It is completly bogus.
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    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

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    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG View Post
    The problem is, you cannot talk or look at the BNP without confronting the two tun elephant in the room. They are a racist party. It is like saying, well without the environmental policies of the Green party, they are a socialist party! Sure, economic policy that is set forward by the BNP are to the left of Labour, it is socialist - nationalisation and funding of services. But they are racist in every way of the word, moreover they are not an honest party - how in this clearly globalised world can you say - I don't like your culture and you people, stay away from me. It is completly bogus.
    So what you are saying is that the right is racist and that racism is an inherent trait of the right and never appears on the left?

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    Senior Member Senior Member naut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    I love the irony between their political stances on certain issues.
    #Hillary4prism

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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    The BNP are close to my views in many ways, more than any of the new right parties. It's a shame about the racist stuff, otherwise I would vote for them.

    *If* the racist stuff is at least seriously watered down in the coming years, it's not impossible that I might vote for them.

    I know that sounds bad, but the more I think about it the more it seems that it would be even more immoral to vote for the other parties. There might be a bit of racist nonsense with the BNP (but I don't buy the "OMG they'll have a holocaust" talk), but then at the same time - how many people are dying in hospital beds because of the new right's furthering of privatisation? Also, the BNP are anti-abortion, which is a big plus for me (and remember, it's mass murder as far as I'm concerned). Also, I think that as the only socialist party available (lets be honest), I think they will save the lives of a lot of poor people, they will make sure they get a good NHS service and will keep them out of poverty.

    If I went to vote and put a mark next to Labour, I would have to ask myself, how many people are going to die because of this (yes I over-analyse a bit, but you get my point).
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    There you have it, the authentic voice of the left in the UK admits that the BNP is actually left of Labour:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/europe/2...-party-british

    I have been arguing for some time that the BNP have nothing to do with right-wing politics, but it is always to good a talking point from left-wing commentators to introduce discussion on the BNP as the party from the far right of politics.
    This has been patently evident from where the BNP derive their core vote, and the fact that inner c-ty labour heaertland is the place that gets bled for new BNP votes, but why let truth get in the way of thing?

    It looks like the New Statesmen wishes to introduce a little intellectual honesty into the debate.
    You have no left-wing parties in the UK anymore. And hardly any centrist parties. New labour belongs on the right, whether BNP is further to the right than that isn't really important, they still belong on the right, left of labour or not.

    Anyway..... Ever heard of the concept of "the third way"...? You might want to check it out. Heck, you might even understand that the political world is too diverse and complicated to be divided into just two terms! Go for it!
    Last edited by HoreTore; 04-25-2009 at 19:38.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    You have no left-wing parties in the UK anymore. And hardly any centrist parties. New labour belongs on the right, whether BNP is further to the right than that isn't really important, they still belong on the right, left of labour or not.

    Anyway..... Ever heard of the concept of "the third way"...? You might want to check it out. Heck, you might even understand that the political world is too diverse and complicated to be divided into just two terms! Go for it!
    that's the joy of the thatcher legacy.

    no doubt, just thought it would be fun to spread the sunshine which is the hope that right-wing politics will no longer be exclusively tarred by association with the BNP.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    that's the joy of the thatcher legacy.

    no doubt, just thought it would be fun to spread the sunshine which is the hope that right-wing politics will no longer be exclusively tarred by association with the BNP.
    Uhm.... Why should that change? What they've said, is that BNP is to the left of a right-wing party.... Still a long way from a lefty
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    "So what you are saying is that the right is racist and that racism is an inherent trait of the right and never appears on the left?"
    No. If you become a racist you are not anymore a lefty. The left believes in the great fraternity of humankind, so can't be per definition racist.
    That why National Socialism is Right Wing. even if trying to cover under Socialism.

    To compare Jaures to Hitler is just a good joke.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
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    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    No. If you become a racist you are not anymore a lefty. The left believes in the great fraternity of humankind, so can't be per definition racist.
    That why National Socialism is Right Wing. even if trying to cover under Socialism.
    In a single paragraph, you have managed to ignore around a hundred years of history. Congratulations.

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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Maybe (just maybe) "left" and "right" aren't terribly useful metaphors anymore?
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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    "Right wing" is nowadays considered to include (classical) liberals, wich is ironic since they were considered left wing in the 18th and early 19th century. Only conservatives were considered to be right wing.

    The terms are outdated, not even Mussolini or Hitler considered themselves to be either left or right. The people who insist on using them generally consider themselves leftists and anyone who they don't want to be associated with (i.e. Stalin, Pol Pot) as right wingers or at least non-leftist.

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    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Well someone's got to do it...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlmGknvr_Pg
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    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    If you strip away the xenophodia and racism then yes, what you have is a socialist program. As I said previously, fascism and socialism, two cheeks of the same arse.
    Far left... could be either anarchistic (social laws) or state control (economic). Left is meaningless.
    Far right... could be either anarchistic (economics) or state control (social laws). Right is meaningless.

    Two cheeks? Same puckered brownie, that's for sure. Extremist partisans can all kiss my nether region.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    "In a single paragraph, you have managed to ignore around a hundred years of history. Congratulations." Thanks.
    However, hundred years of history would be a little bit excessive. The separation between Right and Left is our modern acceptation is younger than that.
    So, by the way, can you give me exemple a racist left movements?
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    The Khmer Rouge actively persecuted ethnic minorities. Mugabe is doing it right now (and being quite frank about his racism too). The Soviet Union and probably most other marxist governments that ever existed....wait, none of those were real leftists were they?
    Last edited by Kralizec; 04-26-2009 at 09:00.

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    If you strip away the xenophodia and racism then yes, what you have is a socialist program. As I said previously, fascism and socialism, two cheeks of the same arse.
    Damn straight.

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    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    "wait, none of those were real leftists were they?".
    Yeap. None of them, they betrayed (and trade) the Left values, so they can't claim to be lefty.
    Socialism is caracterised by it UNIVERSAL values (not trade). If you don't agree to theses values you are not a real lefty...
    You have others points like right for dignity, right to choose, right to be responsible for your choices and other basic duties but the main one is anti-discrimation stance.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec View Post
    ....wait, none of those were real leftists were they?
    According to some they weren't proper Communist states but they were left wing.
    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
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    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Brain hurts. Such... useless... terminology... left and right have no meaning without a universally accepted definition... ouch.
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "wait, none of those were real leftists were they?".
    Yeap. None of them, they betrayed (and trade) the Left values, so they can't claim to be lefty.
    Socialism is caracterised by it UNIVERSAL values (not trade). If you don't agree to theses values you are not a real lefty...
    If you exclude everyone who's racist, why did you bother asking for examples in the first place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    The people who insist on using them generally consider themselves leftists and anyone who they don't want to be associated with (i.e. Stalin, Pol Pot) as right wingers or at least non-leftist.

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    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    Brain hurts. Such... useless... terminology... left and right have no meaning without a universally accepted definition... ouch.
    Indeed, perhaps we should use socialist and conservative? In that case, only socialism can be considered an ideology, conservatism is just a way of thinking not governing, a conservative in the UK does not believe in the conservatism of the U.S, well if he does he is a nutter and would not be elected.

    Fascists, in my opinion do derive alot of their political thoughts from socialism, but they also take a lot from romanticism and jingoism, creating a truly different monster. Socialism and Fascism should be on the same poll but at oposite ends, whereas Liberalism and Conservatism can perhaps be considered for their own spectrum?

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    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Default the Magyar View Post
    Indeed, perhaps we should use socialist and conservative? In that case, only socialism can be considered an ideology, conservatism is just a way of thinking not governing, a conservative in the UK does not believe in the conservatism of the U.S, well if he does he is a nutter and would not be elected.

    Fascists, in my opinion do derive alot of their political thoughts from socialism, but they also take a lot from romanticism and jingoism, creating a truly different monster. Socialism and Fascism should be on the same poll but at oposite ends, whereas Liberalism and Conservatism can perhaps be considered for their own spectrum?
    Socialist?

    Every nation is at least to some degree socialist. You pay taxes, you get a national army and government services. As for the whole mucky conservative thing, conservative simply means resistant to change. It's meaning depends upon what is being changed and by whom. Conservative groups would be the ones keeping abortion legal, by definition... but I doubt "conservatives" identify with that.

    Fascists and socialists have little in common in terms of political thought. That's why they have separate words and rarely do they cooperate with one another. Conservatism as it is known in the USA is just another brand of liberalism, with a less progressive bent. That's all. Same love for liberal democracy, human rights, and the same basic stance on free market principles. The current difference between liberal and conservative in the USA? About 3% in federal income taxes and slight differences on foreign and energy policy. The "fascist" and "racist" nonsense that keeps being slung around by wackos on the left and right is just designed to generate interest in the very slight differences between the two monolithic parties.

    If Obama is a socialist who wants to turn America into Sweden, I'm looking forward to all those weeks of paid vacation, healthcare, education, etc. But it will never happen because what those on the so-called right are doing, is called using hyperbole to get attention. There is a lack of political will in this mostly moderate, slightly conservative country to progress to the point where we have a balanced social system like Sweden. That's evil communist freedom-hating stuff.

    The wingnut partisans on both sides would have you believe the epic battle between the Republicans and the Democrats is the battle between liberal progressive Sweden-like utopia with a balanced ecosystem and state-supported business, and some conservative paradise where Bible camp is tax deductible and abortions and divorce are made illegal, and all the homosexuals get "cured" by Jesus. But the fact is, there's little difference between the Republicans and the Democrats, beyond some minor changes. I happen to like some of those changes, and so I have an opinion on the matter. But the Republicans won't turn the nation into Saudi Arabia, and the Democrats won't turn the nation into Sweden. Case closed. Though I'd prefer Sweden over Saudi Arabia, and I think most people alive would, hence why I believe in spite of all their protestations of "conservative" values, most people in America have to own up to the fact that they support liberalism over fundamentalism. It's not a sin, you won't go to hell. Democrats aren't pushing fascism and Republicans aren't pushing Sharia Law. So perhaps we can be less melodramatic about it.

    You have a state government which collects income taxes and uses it to fund national services, you've got at least a slightly socialist state. Reps and Dems are nearly identical. I don't recall George Bush cancelling the department of education or closing the federally mandated interstate highway system, or abolishing welfare. Seems kinda socialist to me.

    You have a state government which is resistant to the idea of stricter controls on guns or more lax restrictions on privacy rights and abortions, you have a government which basically rejects the idea of gay marriage... you have a conservative state that's resistant to progressive values. The Democrats are in power and gay marriage isn't legal in all 50 states, guns are still very very legal, and they haven't really touched the abortion laws. Seems kinda conservative to me.

    I wonder, if there will ever come a day when people can leave their political party at the door, and forget all the buzzwords and stereotypes and slogans and divisive propaganda, and sit down together in spite of minor disagreements on policy, and create a language we all understand and accept as being real and legitimate, and use those words to bridge gaps in our understanding and perhaps, just perhaps, agree on the major issues, or agree to disagree while the other party is in power, and otherwise not slander them as being un-American, fascist, racist, etc.

    Nah. People are having too much fun creating false controversy and joining factions to gain power over each other to leave all that third-grade behavior at the door. People, in my opinion, are more interested in associating with people who agree with their particular ideology and persecuting those who disagree, than creating a harmonious world which takes into account people's differences, and remembering that if we were all the same, this would be a world filled with billions and billions of examples of human monotony, not exceptional individuals.

    Me personally? I say let states decide contentious issues, and leave the national issues for things which are really important, like human rights and legal protections. If you don't want a nationalist light rail system, fine, we won't build one in your state... but let the other states build one. Simple stuff, people. If Texas doesn't want gay marriage... whatever. You live in Texas, you deal with Texas values. But there's no reason why other states can't allow it if the courts rule on it and people vote on it. Let "God" sort out those deep spiritual matters after we're dead, and leave religion out of the law. Live and let live.

    Whoooo.... better stop before I really get goin'. I'm the only one who wants to listen to my opinions anyway. This quibbling about left and right though... it's very stupid in my opinion. It's not based on anything substantive, the real definitions have gotten lost, and it's just mindless partisan bickering and slander at this point. But what do I know. Didn't mean to intrude... people, have fun portraying political opponents as demons and making little headway convincing them of your worldview.
    Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 04-26-2009 at 11:35.
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  28. #28
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Heck, you might even understand that the political world is too diverse and complicated to be divided into just two terms! Go for it!
    If you were a chick I'd marry you. Well done, sir.
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  29. #29

    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Whats funny about the OP is that Goodwin and Ford have written lots of articles which call the BNP right wing extremists . Goodwin lectures on right wing extremism ...he talks a lot about the BNP in those lectures , well that and the crazy right wing Muslim fundamentalists.
    So from the OP the BNP is to the left of new Labour , well thats a surprise isn't it considering new labour is probably to the right of the tories now .
    I like Goodwins bit about the growing popularity of the BNP policies with uneducated older white males, he could have just said average daily mail reader instead .

  30. #30
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    Socialist?

    Every nation is at least to some degree socialist. You pay taxes, you get a national army and government services. As for the whole mucky conservative thing, conservative simply means resistant to change. It's meaning depends upon what is being changed and by whom. Conservative groups would be the ones keeping abortion legal, by definition... but I doubt "conservatives" identify with that.

    Fascists and socialists have little in common in terms of political thought. That's why they have separate words and rarely do they cooperate with one another. Conservatism as it is known in the USA is just another brand of liberalism, with a less progressive bent. That's all. Same love for liberal democracy, human rights, and the same basic stance on free market principles. The current difference between liberal and conservative in the USA? About 3% in federal income taxes and slight differences on foreign and energy policy. The "fascist" and "racist" nonsense that keeps being slung around by wackos on the left and right is just designed to generate interest in the very slight differences between the two monolithic parties.

    If Obama is a socialist who wants to turn America into Sweden, I'm looking forward to all those weeks of paid vacation, healthcare, education, etc. But it will never happen because what those on the so-called right are doing, is called using hyperbole to get attention. There is a lack of political will in this mostly moderate, slightly conservative country to progress to the point where we have a balanced social system like Sweden. That's evil communist freedom-hating stuff.

    The wingnut partisans on both sides would have you believe the epic battle between the Republicans and the Democrats is the battle between liberal progressive Sweden-like utopia with a balanced ecosystem and state-supported business, and some conservative paradise where Bible camp is tax deductible and abortions and divorce are made illegal, and all the homosexuals get "cured" by Jesus. But the fact is, there's little difference between the Republicans and the Democrats, beyond some minor changes. I happen to like some of those changes, and so I have an opinion on the matter. But the Republicans won't turn the nation into Saudi Arabia, and the Democrats won't turn the nation into Sweden. Case closed. Though I'd prefer Sweden over Saudi Arabia, and I think most people alive would, hence why I believe in spite of all their protestations of "conservative" values, most people in America have to own up to the fact that they support liberalism over fundamentalism. It's not a sin, you won't go to hell. Democrats aren't pushing fascism and Republicans aren't pushing Sharia Law. So perhaps we can be less melodramatic about it.

    You have a state government which collects income taxes and uses it to fund national services, you've got at least a slightly socialist state. Reps and Dems are nearly identical. I don't recall George Bush cancelling the department of education or closing the federally mandated interstate highway system, or abolishing welfare. Seems kinda socialist to me.

    You have a state government which is resistant to the idea of stricter controls on guns or more lax restrictions on privacy rights and abortions, you have a government which basically rejects the idea of gay marriage... you have a conservative state that's resistant to progressive values. The Democrats are in power and gay marriage isn't legal in all 50 states, guns are still very very legal, and they haven't really touched the abortion laws. Seems kinda conservative to me.

    I wonder, if there will ever come a day when people can leave their political party at the door, and forget all the buzzwords and stereotypes and slogans and divisive propaganda, and sit down together in spite of minor disagreements on policy, and create a language we all understand and accept as being real and legitimate, and use those words to bridge gaps in our understanding and perhaps, just perhaps, agree on the major issues, or agree to disagree while the other party is in power, and otherwise not slander them as being un-American, fascist, racist, etc.

    Nah. People are having too much fun creating false controversy and joining factions to gain power over each other to leave all that third-grade behavior at the door. People, in my opinion, are more interested in associating with people who agree with their particular ideology and persecuting those who disagree, than creating a harmonious world which takes into account people's differences, and remembering that if we were all the same, this would be a world filled with billions and billions of examples of human monotony, not exceptional individuals.

    Me personally? I say let states decide contentious issues, and leave the national issues for things which are really important, like human rights and legal protections. If you don't want a nationalist light rail system, fine, we won't build one in your state... but let the other states build one. Simple stuff, people. If Texas doesn't want gay marriage... whatever. You live in Texas, you deal with Texas values. But there's no reason why other states can't allow it if the courts rule on it and people vote on it. Let "God" sort out those deep spiritual matters after we're dead, and leave religion out of the law. Live and let live.

    Whoooo.... better stop before I really get goin'. I'm the only one who wants to listen to my opinions anyway. This quibbling about left and right though... it's very stupid in my opinion. It's not based on anything substantive, the real definitions have gotten lost, and it's just mindless partisan bickering and slander at this point. But what do I know. Didn't mean to intrude... people, have fun portraying political opponents as demons and making little headway convincing them of your worldview.
    I don't understand why you posted this in reply to my post.

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