If you strip away the xenophodia and racism then yes, what you have is a socialist program. As I said previously, fascism and socialism, two cheeks of the same arse.
Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)
If you strip away the xenophodia and racism then yes, what you have is a socialist program. As I said previously, fascism and socialism, two cheeks of the same arse.
There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”
To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.
"The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."
Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)
Not really surprising they get a lot of votes from inner city areas due to the fact they are National Socialists. In fact, they are probably the only party with socialist ideals left who could potentially win some votes. Then again Socialism is a dead movement in the UK, so the fact that most of the UK is only interested voting for moderate centre parties means that the BNP will never make any strong headway in turning the electorate. I would be surprised if they even manage to pull the 5% vote needed to get the deposit back for your party, no far right party ever has.
Besides, I think a substantial amount of people aren't on the same wave length with the BNP thinking. If your going to vote for a party which was founded by a Nazi and continues to be run by some one who denies the extent of the holocaust, well your an idiot.
"A lamb goes to the slaughter but a man, he knows when to walk away."
Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
So now that we pretty much admit that fascism and Socialism are part and parcel of the left, what is "the Far Right?
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 04-25-2009 at 14:59.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)
Here we go again... but this time I'll write up something well-sourced that explains why Fascism is not a movement of the Left. I have the day off tomorrow to pour over my Fascism and Anti-Fascism Uni sourcebooks. I knew that course would come in handy!
Last edited by CountArach; 04-25-2009 at 15:00.
Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)
The problem is, you cannot talk or look at the BNP without confronting the two tun elephant in the room. They are a racist party. It is like saying, well without the environmental policies of the Green party, they are a socialist party! Sure, economic policy that is set forward by the BNP are to the left of Labour, it is socialist - nationalisation and funding of services. But they are racist in every way of the word, moreover they are not an honest party - how in this clearly globalised world can you say - I don't like your culture and you people, stay away from me. It is completly bogus.
GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.
Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944
Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)
So what you are saying is that the right is racist and that racism is an inherent trait of the right and never appears on the left?
Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)
I love the irony between their political stances on certain issues.
#Hillary4prism
BD:TW
Some piously affirm: "The truth is such and such. I know! I see!"
And hold that everything depends upon having the “right” religion.
But when one really knows, one has no need of religion. - Mahavyuha Sutra
Freedom necessarily involves risk. - Alan Watts
Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)
The BNP are close to my views in many ways, more than any of the new right parties. It's a shame about the racist stuff, otherwise I would vote for them.
*If* the racist stuff is at least seriously watered down in the coming years, it's not impossible that I might vote for them.
I know that sounds bad, but the more I think about it the more it seems that it would be even more immoral to vote for the other parties. There might be a bit of racist nonsense with the BNP (but I don't buy the "OMG they'll have a holocaust" talk), but then at the same time - how many people are dying in hospital beds because of the new right's furthering of privatisation? Also, the BNP are anti-abortion, which is a big plus for me (and remember, it's mass murder as far as I'm concerned). Also, I think that as the only socialist party available (lets be honest), I think they will save the lives of a lot of poor people, they will make sure they get a good NHS service and will keep them out of poverty.
If I went to vote and put a mark next to Labour, I would have to ask myself, how many people are going to die because of this (yes I over-analyse a bit, but you get my point).
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)
Far left... could be either anarchistic (social laws) or state control (economic). Left is meaningless.
Far right... could be either anarchistic (economics) or state control (social laws). Right is meaningless.
Two cheeks? Same puckered brownie, that's for sure. Extremist partisans can all kiss my nether region.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)
"In a single paragraph, you have managed to ignore around a hundred years of history. Congratulations." Thanks.
However, hundred years of history would be a little bit excessive. The separation between Right and Left is our modern acceptation is younger than that.
So, by the way, can you give me exemple a racist left movements?
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.
"I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
"You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
"Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"
Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)
The Khmer Rouge actively persecuted ethnic minorities. Mugabe is doing it right now (and being quite frank about his racism too). The Soviet Union and probably most other marxist governments that ever existed....wait, none of those were real leftists were they?
Last edited by Kralizec; 04-26-2009 at 09:00.
Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)
According to some they weren't proper Communist states but they were left wing.....wait, none of those were real leftists were they?
Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)
Brain hurts. Such... useless... terminology... left and right have no meaning without a universally accepted definition... ouch.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)
Indeed, perhaps we should use socialist and conservative? In that case, only socialism can be considered an ideology, conservatism is just a way of thinking not governing, a conservative in the UK does not believe in the conservatism of the U.S, well if he does he is a nutter and would not be elected.
Fascists, in my opinion do derive alot of their political thoughts from socialism, but they also take a lot from romanticism and jingoism, creating a truly different monster. Socialism and Fascism should be on the same poll but at oposite ends, whereas Liberalism and Conservatism can perhaps be considered for their own spectrum?
Sig by Durango
-Oscar WildeNow that the House of Commons is trying to become useful, it does a great deal of harm.
Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)
Brenus, your logic is like saying that somebody isn't right wing because they believe in big government (for example). You can still be a leftist without being "loving", and saying anything else is just. All the governments Krazilec mentioned were certainly left-wing.
Last edited by Evil_Maniac From Mars; 04-26-2009 at 18:29.
Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)
Damn straight.
Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)
"wait, none of those were real leftists were they?".
Yeap. None of them, they betrayed (and trade) the Left values, so they can't claim to be lefty.
Socialism is caracterised by it UNIVERSAL values (not trade). If you don't agree to theses values you are not a real lefty...
You have others points like right for dignity, right to choose, right to be responsible for your choices and other basic duties but the main one is anti-discrimation stance.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.
"I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
"You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
"Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"
Re: Far right groups are in fact far left (UK left reconsiders the BNP)
If you exclude everyone who's racist, why did you bother asking for examples in the first place?
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