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Thread: The other side of the mirror

  1. #1
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default The other side of the mirror

    I never ask my mother before joining the army.
    Never ask before volunteer for paratrooper training and not even before to go in wars.
    But these days I am on the other side.

    My favourite nephew joined the Army like his grand father, father and uncles.
    Thanks to Nicolas Zarkozy he will probably go to Afghanistan.

    Nothing I can say, I would probably done the same at his age. His father, my brother did it. I did it. My father did.
    But my first reaction was: He can't do that... Watch the 9th Company, think... Then I appeared to me That I never really knew what my parents thought about what I did.
    Nothing really to comment.
    I was just wanting to know if some experinced the same mixed feeling of... I don't know...
    Last edited by Brenus; 04-25-2009 at 21:40.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  2. #2
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    You can't put an old head on young shoulders. Wisdom only comes with age. If you're lucky.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  3. #3
    Corporate Hippie Member rasoforos's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    You can't put an old head on young shoulders. Wisdom only comes with age. If you're lucky.
    Talking about Afghanistan and head on shoulders rearrangements literally gave me the creeps

    That is how life is, people make good and bad choices and being young or old does not really make a big difference in the grand scheme of things. We all make mistakes and some we will make when young and some when old.

    All the best for your nephew Brenus. You cannot curb the enthusiasm of the young to do brave and yet stupid things but you can always hammer some good reasoning and thinking into their skulls so that if he does go to Afghanistan he will do just fine.
    Αξιζει φιλε να πεθανεις για ενα ονειρο, κι ας ειναι η φωτια του να σε καψει.

    http://grumpygreekguy.tumblr.com/

  4. #4
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    There is nothing wrong with joining the military. Best of luck to him.

  5. #5
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Nothing wrong with the principle of joining the military, but serving in Afghanistan and trying to achieve a goal no one can define isn't really something to be happy about.

    On the other hand, I may be biased. I'm a pacifist and unless my country/family/anything else I hold dear is directly threatened, there's not a thing in the world that would make me take a gun and use it to kill another human being...

    Good luck to your nephew Brenus. I know that I would worry very much if a person close to me got sent there...

  6. #6

    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    There is nothing wrong with joining the military.
    True , however there is something very wrong with putting your life in the hands of an idiot politician for them to throw away on a political whim or in the interest of cutting short term spending.

  7. #7
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman View Post
    True , however there is something very wrong with putting your life in the hands of an idiot politician for them to throw away on a political whim or in the interest of cutting short term spending.
    Fair point. But then you can do the same by getting ill and going into a UK hospital.
    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
    Albert Camus "Noces"

  8. #8
    Corporate Hippie Member rasoforos's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost View Post
    Fair point. But then you can do the same by getting ill and going into a UK hospital.
    You cynic, you!
    Αξιζει φιλε να πεθανεις για ενα ονειρο, κι ας ειναι η φωτια του να σε καψει.

    http://grumpygreekguy.tumblr.com/

  9. #9
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Rather than turning this into a thread about Afghanistan, I'll just say: good luck to your nephew Brenus.

  10. #10

    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Fair point. But then you can do the same by getting ill and going into a UK hospital.
    Could be worse , it could be an Irish hospital

  11. #11
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman View Post
    Could be worse , it could be an Irish hospital
    Politicians spend on our hospitals?
    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
    Albert Camus "Noces"

  12. #12

    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Politicians spend on our hospitals?
    Of course they do , after they close them and decide its a prime piece of land for their latest personal tax dodge swindle.

  13. #13
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    It's funny you bring it up Brenus (best of luck and pluck to your nephew).

    Thinking back, I didn't consult my family either in my teens/early twenties, just presented them with 'done deals'.

    Yet I expected my sons to consult me. And the oldest did (well, sort of: he never asks me "What do you think?"; rather he says: "I gonna do this, or that." Then I ask "Is that a question?", LOL.) Still, it's better than what I did: "Oh, btw, I'm in the army", "Oh, btw, I'm getting married".

    On putting one's life in the hands of poli's with dubious scruples and motivations: being drafted kinda solved that issue for me initially; then I served under 5 different CinC's voluntarily, finding that their politics didn't change my life as a soldier very much, only the geography of where I'd serve.
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

  14. #14
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Come to think of it, I didnt ask my parents either...

    I would however expect my future son to ask me!

    Wierd how the world works...

  15. #15
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman View Post
    True , however there is something very wrong with putting your life in the hands of an idiot politician for them to throw away on a political whim or in the interest of cutting short term spending.
    It is freely done, it is his choice as an adult, and as a result it is his place, and not ours, to decide if it is right or wrong.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    My point is not if Afghanistan is a war to fight. My point is not is my nephew does the right things. He made his choices like I did, or his father did.
    It is more about this strange feeling inside me.
    I made my choices and took my risks. I told people I was free. I never really question my familly about my adventures...
    I do respect my nephew's choices. I would probably do the same.
    It is difficult to express. I somehow understand my familly's feeling better for the choices I made.
    And I've get some questions about my own choices as well...
    And another nephew (English this one) was toying with the idea to join the UK Army few months ago...
    I remember when awake in a hospital, after having been hit by a rocket or mortar shell. The first think I remember was the eyes of my brother looking at me, with the horror light in it. When I thought "I am in deep ....".
    The pain we imposed to our loved one by our choices... And our arrogance, necessary arrogance which help us in our choice, this perhaps selfishness to carry on.

    I can't disapproved what he is doing without disapproving what I did.
    But I can't stop to think "don't go, it's dangerous".
    Last edited by Brenus; 04-26-2009 at 19:20.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  17. #17
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Actually, it's kind of nice when your parent made questionable decisions when they were young. I remember countering my father when he got angry at me, pointing out that my irrational act was way less life-threatening than his at the same age.

    Having a parent who never made a terrible mistake would be hell.
    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them ... well, I have others." — Groucho Marx

  18. #18
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re : The other side of the mirror

    Il n'y a de bon dans l'homme que ses jeunes sentiments et ses vieilles pensées.
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
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    blue and underlined is a link


  19. #19

    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    It is freely done, it is his choice as an adult, and as a result it is his place, and not ours, to decide if it is right or wrong.
    Bollox .

  20. #20
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman View Post
    Bollox .
    Hardly.

  21. #21
    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    There comes a time when every young man or woman needs to decide what they will do in life, and how they will live it. You raise them the best way you can, to the best of your abilities, and then one day you must let them go. You can't live their life for them or protect them from life's ups & downs anymore, even though your paternal instincts may be sounding the alarm. Be there for them when needed, give your honest opinion if asked, and pray like hell. One can't be afraid to live one's life, to strive and sometimes fail. That's life, and those of us who have been to a few rodeos have all experienced this to some degree. We were all young and invincible once. The only difference now is experience, and the only way to get that is....making your choices and having the courage of your convictions to accept the consequences.
    It is what it is. I shall keep your nephew in my prayers, Brenus.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*

  22. #22
    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    I'm with Hosa. People need to forge their own path in the world. The problem lays in when they must take the reigns from their guardians; ideally, sooner rather than later. Of course, the world isn't an ideal place, and people don't always use good judgement. I would like to think that I'm beyond my "young and immortal" phase, but really I'm not. I still don't take as good a care of myself as I should, I still don't take the care that I should, I still don't plan as much as I should. But learning is a part of the journey, and I hope to do much more of it. We all make mistakes; we just hope that there is an opportunity to learn from them, so that they may be sucesses in the future.

    I know not whether this will be a mistake or not, Brennus. Regardless, decision of such a nature as this are bound to breed new learning experiences. Hopefully your nephew makes it out well.
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

  23. #23

    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Hardly.

    doubleplusbollox
    The fact that he is an adult and is making his own choice has no relevance whatsoever as to how others view his choice .

  24. #24
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman View Post

    doubleplusbollox
    The fact that he is an adult and is making his own choice has no relevance whatsoever as to how others view his choice .
    Absolutely, otherwise all the discussions in the Backroom would be wrong, I mean should not exist. After all politicians are adults and make their own choices so who would we be to discuss them?


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  25. #25
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman View Post
    The fact that he is an adult and is making his own choice has no relevance whatsoever as to how others view his choice .
    It is his place to decide if he made the right choice, and it seems very wrong to ridicule him or to disapprove of his situation without actually knowing anything about the situation.

  26. #26

    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    It is his place to decide if he made the right choice, and it seems very wrong to ridicule him or to disapprove of his situation without actually knowing anything about the situation.
    That doesn't work because it is my descision freely as an adult to write what I wrote

  27. #27
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman View Post
    That doesn't work because it is my descision freely as an adult to write what I wrote
    Two things wrong with your logic there.

  28. #28
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman;2221656;responding to "there's nothing wrong with joining the military"
    True , however there is something very wrong with putting your life in the hands of an idiot politician for them to throw away on a political whim or in the interest of cutting short term spending.
    Since we can be reasonably certain that any political movement will eventually drift away from its own ideals (most have) and that a fair percentage of all our politicos will become corupt or "idiots" as you imply (seems nearly universal, at least with enough time in office), then by extension we should not ever join the military.

    Thus, the state can never be trusted with power.

    But if we never trust them with power, they cannot accomplish anything of value.

    Where does this take us?
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  29. #29
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Since we can be reasonably certain that any political movement will eventually drift away from its own ideals (most have) and that a fair percentage of all our politicos will become corupt or "idiots" as you imply (seems nearly universal, at least with enough time in office), then by extension we should not ever join the military.

    Thus, the state can never be trusted with power.

    But if we never trust them with power, they cannot accomplish anything of value.

    Where does this take us?
    Ireland.
    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
    Albert Camus "Noces"

  30. #30

    Default Re: The other side of the mirror

    Two things wrong with your logic there

    Thats because I am using your logic which was bollox

    Ireland.

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