Why build Fluyt's?

[Didz]

Just thought I'd ask in case I've missed something.

I'm dabbling in a Dutch Campaign at the moment and I'm building up my trade empire in the East Indies and Brazil. I've been buying fluyt's mainly becuase they are tough ships, but also because the blurb says they were the definitive Dutch merchant ship.

But I think I'm going to stop and switch the buying Indiamen. They may not be as tough, but they cost me 534g as opposed to 1219g for a fluyt (43% saving) and they only cost 50g per turn to maintain, as opposed to 150g (66% saving).

The crunch came when I worked out the income from the two ships, and realised that both the Fluyt and Indiaman carry exactly the same amount of goods (e.g. both transport 20 pounds of spices per turn.). It's just that the Indiaman does it for a third of the cost.

Is there any reason to pay the extra?

[A Very Super Market]

Fluyts are a makeshift 5th-rate...

[Ordani]

In the early game, fluyts are the most capable warships available and remain some of the most cost effective for quite some time, however once you have a few and/or a few fleets of 3rd rates or better, there is no reason to build them anymore. They exist to get you a leg up on the trade game, and then become redundant.

[SpiritFox]

Use them to mangle undefended Indiamen sitting occupying trade routes you covet.

[Dayve]

Because Fluyts are like a modern day American or Nato warship compared to a Somalian pirate fishing boat, in comparison to a 6th rate, which is the best other nations can build at the start of the game, giving the United Provinces (and Spanish, i forget if they can recruit them or not) an early advantage, and a big advantage at that.

Once the enemy begin recruiting 4th rates though, you'll want to scrap them ASAP.

[Skott]

Yep, once you get access to 3rd Rates Fluyts become obsolete but in the early game they are nice to use.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

In theory they are nice to have in a trade stack to protect the merchantmen from every brig based fleet that might wish to eject you from a trade node. In practice, I don't think I've ever seen the AI attempt to do so. Until they do, it's not really worth it to have them included in a trade fleet.

This limits their usefulness to the opening stages of the game, where it's hefty broadsides should give you a sizeable advantage over anything that isn't a galleon.

[Fisherking]

Fluyts are fighting ships that can trade. They are slow and expensive. If you want to protect your trade ships they my have a use but for trade ships just go with what is cheapest.

[Sheogorath]

I like galleons more, just 'cause they've got more guns. Sure, they fall apart if you poke them too hard, but hey, they've got sixty-freakin-guns.

[Didz]

In theory they are nice to have in a trade stack to protect the merchantmen from every brig based fleet that might wish to eject you from a trade node. In practice, I don't think I've ever seen the AI attempt to do so. Until they do, it's not really worth it to have them included in a trade fleet.

I don't think the AI attacks trade ports, at least I've not seen it happen so far in my game. Pirates especially seem to ignore ships once they are on a trade port. They will attack your trade ships if they catch them en-route, but once you make it to the yellow anchor you seem to be safe.

The other surprising thing I noticed was that pirate vessels occupy trade ports too, and get the same flashing money symbol that other ships get when they do, but no trade route is generated. Quite a nice way to grab an extra trade port or two without starting a war if you spot them.

So, fluyt's are basically substitute 4th Rates rather than trading vessels in terms of 'reasons to purchase', and can be ignored once the real 4th rates are available. Thanks everyone, think I built a few too many, but never mind, might use them as heavy troops transports or something..

[rossahh]

The other surprising thing I noticed was that pirate vessels occupy trade ports too, and get the same flashing money symbol that other ships get when they do, but no trade route is generated.

Until their capital city gets a trade port, and then they will get a trade route. The starting capital has a naval yard as opposed to a trade port, so take that and then the pirates will make trade money (but why would you want that?)

[Monsieur Alphonse]

I destroyed the Dutch and Curacao became an other pirate stronghold. That gave them a trade port and they started trading. They were importing sugar but were apparently not selling it to anyone.

[Didz]

Right! I'm in the process of replacing all my Fluyt's with Indiamen now. But rather than just deleting them I thought I might use them as troop transports as they are reasonably intimidating in large numbers and I read somewhere that the Dutch used to strip out all the guns to increase their cargo capacity (en-flute) like the French did with frigates.

Thought I'd allow myself to stick one unit (120 men/45 horse/1 battery) on each fluyt if I agree not to use its guns, or one per two fluyts if I need to use their guns for defence. Just to make naval invasions a tad more realistic anyway.

[Lol! That was weird. I am just massing my Fluyt's at Demerara in Dutch Guyana ready to embark my army of native levies to deal with the pirate bases in the Caribbean and suddenly a huge pirate fleet that sailed from the Caribbean a turn or so ago pops up in Madagascar and cuts my main supply route to Madagascar, The East Indies and India. It could actually give me a bit of a problem as all my naval units are now in the Caribbean. That move could almost be called intuitive, if I didn't realise it was impossible for the AI to be that clever. I am now left with a decision on whether to delay my invasion and send my fleet to deal with the problem or just carry on regardless and hope my money lasts long enough to finish the job.]

[mbrasher1]

Fluyts are not especially useful. THE UP start the game allied to Britain, and has a large navy. You do not need a fleet destroy the pirates. The profit from is WAY larger for IM than for fluyts. The UK fleet helps you take on early seapowers like France and Spain but not Portugal.

As an expensive hybrid, fluyts are unnecessary during the early game, which is the only time they are close to being attractive. As they get outclassed by warships, and outperformed in economics by IM, I never build them.

Lastly, in the early game, the UP is racing to trade slots and churning out IM. Since fluyts cost about double, you are definitely underinvesting in something else (the army to conquer Westphalia or India or the pirates) to make room for a unit that will become obsolete. Your 4 ports should be pumping out IM only.

[Slaists]

Just thought I'd ask in case I've missed something.

I'm dabbling in a Dutch Campaign at the moment and I'm building up my trade empire in the East Indies and Brazil. I've been buying fluyt's mainly becuase they are tough ships, but also because the blurb says they were the definitive Dutch merchant ship.

But I think I'm going to stop and switch the buying Indiamen. They may not be as tough, but they cost me 534g as opposed to 1219g for a fluyt (43% saving) and they only cost 50g per turn to maintain, as opposed to 150g (66% saving).

The crunch came when I worked out the income from the two ships, and realised that both the Fluyt and Indiaman carry exactly the same amount of goods (e.g. both transport 20 pounds of spices per turn.). It's just that the Indiaman does it for a third of the cost.

Is there any reason to pay the extra?

Don't use them as trade ships. Use them as warships that can trade, since you do not have any dockyards from the start. I'd build a few of fluyts for my war-fleet; take it to a trade zone and trade until the fleet is needed for war action.

Anyway, I abandoned my VH Dutch campaign before I could build any other war ships. It got too boring due to the unstoppable gold flow I got from trade.

[anweRU]

I built a couple of fluyts early on in the Caribbean, because the starting navy there is pretty puny. Afterwards, somewhere around the 1720s, I built 5-6 fluyts to fight the Swedes in the Baltic sea, as my only naval port (the French dock at the tip of Normandy) couldn't build better ships yet. I had converted the dock in Flanders to a trade port immediately - much more useful that way.

At any rate, who needs to fight the pirate fleets? Sure, you can grab their trade spots. But beyond that, capture the two pirate islands, and you're done. And if you destroy a European power with Caribbean islands, capturing the newly emerged pirate islands within a turn or too is usually easy (they have only 4 units when they appear).

[Phog_of_War]

I destroyed the Dutch and Curacao became an other pirate stronghold. That gave them a trade port and they started trading. They were importing sugar but were apparently not selling it to anyone.

They need all the sugar to make more rum of course.

[Slaists]

fluyts are way more expensive to maintain post-patch (april 29th). i captured a few from the pirates and noticed my budget taking a nosedive. the fleet expenditure was the reason...

[leothtang]

Fluyts make great battleship. Their gun outnumber 6th rate so basically u can use fluyt to beat up other nation's navy with commercial ports. I consider their ability to trade to be a additional property. Basically I treat them as warship and most of my trading fleet are Indianian. The same can be said for a Galleon which's gun numebr is almost of that of a fourth rate. The benefit of fluyt and Galleon is that you don't need technology or a long time to develop the port to build them, and they don't become obsolete like sloops or brigs. I usually have a few fluyt in my fleet.

[andrewt]

I built a few as warships. That way, I managed to delay getting a dockyard and building ships. I didn't bother replacing them until I got 3rd-rates.

[mbrasher1]

The only time they are useful is early in the game, as warships. But the Dutch fleet is bigger than almost every other fleet except the British fleet, to which the UP starts allied.

Fluyts are therefore offer poorer performance than IM in the trading role and are unneeded in the combat fleet role. Worthless.