Why do i bother?

[Dayve]

Playing as Sweden, the year is 1730. As of yet i haven't been at war with anybody, but the Poles have had large armies stationed on my borders and are hostile since the start, but that's all. Anyhow, i have only 4 trading partners, of which only 2 are worth anything. Britain and France. Denmark and Courland contribute barely anything and are definitely getting the better deal.

Then, out of the blue, my income plummeted from 4,000 per turn to -848 a turn, because the British and UP went to war and were blocking British trade into my lands, from whom the vast majority of my income depended. The port of London was blocked i noticed, no matter, the British have almost a full fleet stationed there and another half a fleet on the port next to it.

4 turns later it was still blocked, and the British had made no attempt to unblock it. My people were unhappy as i'd had to tax all classes to the max, and i had to take action, so i sent my fleet, 6 sicth rates and 4 fourth rates, with a fifth rate admiral, to defeat the UP navy and unblock the port.

I won a phyrric victory, the port was unblocked, but my navy was badly beaten up, with all 6th rates sunk, the admiral dead and 2 50% strength 4th rates remaining, and that was with me outnumbering the UP!

I got the ships back to port and reinforced them with 6 more fourth rates and a new admiral. The UP sent another navy to block the port of London, and again, the British did nothing about it. Their navy consisted of 14 Fluyts and various assorted light support ships, sloops, brigs, and a 5th rate admiral. 17 units all in all, to my 8.

I would like to have waited and built up my navy more before going in and fighting at odds against me of 3-1, but i had run out of money and my income had plummeted even further, and i was now slightly in debt with no way of getting out of it, so i had no choice.

What followed was a 2 hour battle which i was winning for the first half, until out of nowhere 2 of my ships that had not yet entered combat sank as i turned them to fire their first volleys, leaving me with 5 beaten up fourth rates and an admiral, whose ship was sent to a watery grave soon after. For the next hour those 5 ships routed, re-routed and sank a great many of the enemy ships, but although Fluyts are inferior to fourth rates, with 2-1 odds they'll still win. My entire navy was lost. My income is negative, there's nobody else i can trade with and i have no money to build another navy.

The fleet blocking the port at London is so beaten and battered the British could send 3 or 4 sixth rates at it and sink the bastards, but they would rather just avoid combat and let 100% of their empires trade be denied to them, despite the fact that they have 2 enormous fleets in and around London harbour.

In the diplomacy panel, Britain is Terrifying/Destitute.

So i ask myself... why do i bother.

[Didz]

Lol! that is a sad story.

I had exactly the opposite expereince in my Dutch Campaign. All trade from my extensive trading empire flowing into Rotterdam (about 14,000 per turn) my entire financial viability relied upon that port being kept open.

So, no wars with anyone who had a navy. I was allied with Austria, Sweden, Britain, Hannover and Wurtemberg and at war with nobody but the Pirates and the Barbary States.

So, suddenly Sweden attacks Hannover. War between your Allies choose a side

Ok! well Hannover's right next door with quite a big army so no contest really, I choose Hannover.

You are at war with Sweden.....yah! whatever, eat my short's.

Next move a lone Swedish 6th Rate descends on Rotterdam and blocks my entire world trade. My fleet is in the Caribbean fighting pirates, and madame whiplash is giving me earache about imminent bankruptcy.

Aaargh! ships being redirected to Rotterdamn from all over the place, all building programmes cancelled, politician's wagging fingers at each other.

Next turn an English fleet appears blasts the Swedish frigate into matchwood and sails off without waiting for a free pair of clogs.....Phew!

[Lord of the Isles]

When I saw the thread title and who started it, my first thought was that it was another rant at CA. *hangs head in shame* But you are entirely right Dayve, things like this are a real pain. In my anticipation for the next patch, in the hope that it will solve more basic problems, I must try to remember that there are more issues with the game than will be solved in one more patch, no matter how large it is.

I suspect some of the trade/war/blockade system is working as CA intended - being a neutral whose trade is suffering due to a war between third parties makes some sense to me. Unfair maybe but I can see it being to an extent realistic. But even if some of it is meant, the inability of the AI to properly prosecute wars and manage its trade (Great Britain in your example) makes it ultimately too frustrating.

[anweRU]

GB & UP went to war with each other???

The first lesson is: diversify, diversify, diversify. Build many many trade ports & get many trade agreements (Ottomans, Marathas & Mughals rock - which ever of the last two survives) and go fight some wars to capture more taxable land...

The second (and probably more important) lesson is: the AI is too stupid to defend itself.

[joe4iz]

You should try stationing an army in a fort at your border with Poland. If they declare war, they still have to get past the fort. A stack of troops would be nice. They can even be cheap infantry of some sort. I have found that fighting fort battles are a great way to wittle other armies down. Keep the fort wooden as they are easier to defend.

Most of the time the armies next to your borders are militia anyway. In my English campaign, the Spanish had 8 stacks around Gilbralter. 5 of the 8 were almost all militia. The only arty he ever had consisted of Demis that were placed too far away to be any problem.

As others have stated, even if you have to pay to trade, I set up as many trading partners as I could handle on the first and second turn. Some of the AI require money along with the trade agreement.

I found it odd that UP goes to war with GB. Probably what happened is they declared war on the Thirteen Colonies. That happened to me twice playing as GB. As GB, the first thing (the second game) I did was cancel my alliance with them. They remind me of Milan in MTW2....already at war with two major powers and then decide; "Let's see who else we can attack!".

[joe4iz]

I forgot to add that I feel for you. It is very frustrating when the AI does stupid things.....

[Oaty]

I do believe the British AI isn't attacking for a reason. I don't think the AI calculates hull strength for their attacks. My belief is it calculates the total number of guns so if the enemy fleet has just one more gun than them they won't attack. So my guess is the AI would attack with 3 sloops vs 1 sixth rate but if the other way around it won't attack with a sixth rate even though it has a very good chance of winning.

So one of the problems is the British probably have a bunch of crap ships to take on the UP, a stack of 4 ships can be deadlier than 14 ships depending on the combo.

I've also noticed you can blockade the AI port for ages, but its because you outgun them. I was at war with the Ottomans as Russia and decided to move some of the ships out of blockading stacks
............. end turn boom boom boom they attacked 3 blockades I won though because it was a few frigates vs mass brigs, so they had more guns but I had better hull strength.

[Dayve]

I doubt it, i battered that UP fleet to death before my last ship went down. There is no way the 4 ships they have left have more guns than the full stack British fleet sitting in port.

I would also add that the UP are doing something i've never seen before except when i played as them - Expanding in Europe. They've taken Rhineland and the single-state German province underneath it, whose name i forget. They're at war with France, Spain, Britain, Denmark, Hannover, Prussia, and myself.

[Oaty]

Then ally with the British then attack the fleet

[Dayve]

I am allied to the British and i did attack the fleet. The British weren't brought in as reinforcements, peculiar as that is.

[Miracle]

the AI is too stupid to defend itself.

And in some ways, too stupid to attack intelligently.

In one game the Cherokee were at war with Spain for decades. They had a stack and a half in Georgia next to a completely undefended Spanish Florida. Yet, they did not attack. I declared war on the Cherokee and brought in GB and Louisiana as allies. GB had a completely undefended Charleston next to Georgia. Yet, they did not attack GB either.

Instead, the Georgia stack went all the way to a decently defended New Orleans and took it, robbing me of 50% of my Louisiana mission prize. Worst, they destroyed all improvements including a Royal Palace. AI stupidity and spite at its finest.

[Obadiah]

I've had similar things happen, where one AI nation blockades my trade with another AI nation *FOR 20 YEARS* and the situation just sits their statically, with the victim making zero effort to free itself. Incredibly frustrating.

Frankly, I'd call the AI's failure to resolve AI-vs-AI wars (I'm including all on-going seiges, ally still at war with my now-ex enemy, etc.) in SOME fashion within SOME period of time to be the single most annoying strategic map level problem in the game (after CTD's, of course). I don't even care about "realistic results"- just roll the frickin dice and give me the outcome! Can C.A. put in some code so that each year, the odd's of a resolution to an AI-AI war increase by 10%, so that by year 10 we KNOW one side or t'other will have won, and we can get back to the game???

I don't post a lot, and I don't gripe in general- kinda love the game- but OP hit my sore spot...

[Beskar]

They should make it so trade with that area ceases but the trade goes to your other traders so you don't lose overall.

As for raids on the trade route against the enemy should only affect the enemy.

Would make the game better.

[Khorak]

What would be better is that stopping trade with that nation also hits your diplomatic relations with whoever they're trading with. Historically the British Empire had to make a pre-emptive strike against Denmark in 1801, in order to ensure the League of Armed Neutrality didn't manage to get its fleet together to forcibly break the Royal Navy blockade on France that was messing with their trade to France.

You shouldn't just be able to hack off all trade at the balls without annoying everyone else who was making money from it.