A Problem of Shrinkage

[CountArach]

I hate identity politics. It's all about- how can we pander to latinos or how can we pander to blacks, ect... as though each entire race has a hive mind and is in lockstep on the issues. I think that's so much of what is wrong with politics today....

Ah well, not like it's gonna change...

On the other hand identity politics allows those with a shared race, class, gender, etc to band together and demand rights that they believe are theirs. That they believe they need. Identity politics is only natural and has been the norm since the birth of democracy (That is to say a democracy with an expanded suffrage, not the faux-democracy of the 18th and 19th centuries).

Further, as Lemur said, your own views on politics are to a large extent determined by your situation; by your social consciousness. It is simply that, as a member of the ruling class/race/gender, it is natural for you to also look down on identity politics because it is counter to your interests.

[Xiahou]

Further, as Lemur said, your own views on politics are to a large extent determined by your situation; by your social consciousness. It is simply that, as a member of the ruling class/race/gender, it is natural for you to also look down on identity politics because it is counter to your interests.

It's amazing that you and Lemur have such insight into my life- you two must be psychic. What ruling class am I a member of exactly?

And Lemur, you know my political views and say I fit into the demographic that represents those views- tell me about who I am then. You should have no trouble detailing what ethno-social stereotypes I fit into since you know my political views.

[CountArach]

It's amazing that you and Lemur have such insight into my life- you two must be psychic. What ruling class am I a member of exactly?

You are most likely a member of the petit bourgeoisie who has bourgeois sympathies. By aligning with the bourgeoisie you are perpetuating their class' rule.

[Lemur]

And Lemur, you know my political views and say I fit into the demographic that represents those views- tell me about who I am then. You should have no trouble detailing what ethno-social stereotypes I fit into since you know my political views.

I'm not claiming any special insight into your life, Xiahou. You're a white middle-class suburban male in his late thirties or early forties. Maybe in your fifties, but I don't think so. What they would call a "skilled" worker. Your demo, while a tad young, is the bedrock of the Republican party.

You decry "identity politics," but mebbe it's not so obvious when you're the identity being pandered to. Just a thought.

[Xiahou]

You are most likely a member of the petit bourgeoisie who has bourgeois sympathies. By aligning with the bourgeoisie you are perpetuating their class' rule.

Guess again. You must be a proletariat by your views, huh?

I'm not claiming any special insight into your life, Xiahou. You're a white middle-class suburban male in his late thirties or early forties. Maybe in your fifties, but I don't think so. What they would call a "skilled" worker. Your demo, while a tad young, is the bedrock of the Republican party.

Are you describing me or yourself? If it's me, you're wrong. Either way, it's not particularly insightful. I mean, you "narrow" my age down to a range of about 25 yrs and still blow it- come on. White? Yes, along with 70% of the country last I checked. Male? Yes, but you already knew that. Suburban? Not really. I'm an apartment dweller and live in a city of about 50,000.

You decry "identity politics," but mebbe it's not so obvious when you're the identity being pandered to. Just a thought.

Or maybe not, huh? Like I said, I'm guessing your above description probably fits you to a tee- does it not? Why aren't you a Republican? They're the party that panders to your demographic aren't you? I guess you're a sell-out. :laugh4

Yes, I decry identity politics. Can I take that to mean you like them? I find it repugnant that people are stereotyped into groups- racial groupings being most repugnant - and then are assigned a slate of political views that they all must support by virtue of belonging to said group. It's prejudiced and divisive as hell. Both parties do it to varying degrees- and it stinks.

[CountArach]

Guess again. You must be a proletariat by your views, huh?

Enlightened bourgeoisie.

[Xiahou]

Enlightened bourgeoisie.

So you're one of the one's exploiting me!
I own no property, no means of production, have never hired, fired or even supervised anyone. I sell my labor to those with means in return for wages- sounds like I'm a proletariat. Funny thing though... I don't feel exploited.

I'm sure it's because I'm not "enlightened"- maybe one day I'll have my eyes opened and buy into all that marxist drivel.

Oooh I finally get to agree with Xiahou.

I'd better go to bed. Clearly I'm beginning to hallucinate.

[CountArach]

So you're one of the one's exploiting me!
I own no property, no means of production, have never hired, fired or even supervised anyone. I sell my labor to those with means in return for wages- sounds like I'm a proletariat.

Nor do I, however by birth I am a part of the supervisory class (As that is what my dad does, much to my chagrin/distates). Personally though I fit into the proletarian paridigm, and sometimes I do feel exploited by the company I work for - the level of profits they earn is far too high for the wages I get paid. They also expect me to do things that I would normally have moral qualms about.

Funny thing though... I don't feel exploited.

I've heard several proletarians give speeches that disagree with you.

EDIT: But yeah, how about that GOP?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I'm sure it's because I'm not "enlightened"- maybe one day I'll have my eyes opened and buy into all that marxist drivel.

"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin."

[Strike For The South]

Enlightened bourgeoisie.

When you use outdated terms to describe the class system I can't take you seriously.

I imagine as an enlightend bourgeoisie your name will be on the protected scrolls as the uncouth masses come down and kill the white men and rape the white women?

Will you get a nice clerical position?

[CountArach]

When you use outdated terms to describe the class system I can't take you seriously.

I find the Marxist terminology far more flexible and a system built around ownership vs wealth is IMO far more applicable to society. It's how most academics refer to the world, at least in history.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oooh I finally get to agree with Xiahou.

Yeah I don't like identity politics and stereotyping. Even if the stereotype fit the mold more than half of the time, it's still a mild form of prejudice to put people into boxes based on superficial data such as race, age, or social status. Plenty of wealthy types are interested in the poor; plenty of poor people who think excessive taxation is bad, whites who support affirmative action, minorities who do not... etc.

I take it Xiahou has plenty of conservative viewpoints, but even if that is the case I am doubtful I could still predict his stance on a given issue. Many people think independently.

In short; Pizza doesn't like the box. It is full of crumbs and crusts.

[Lemur]

Or maybe not, huh? Like I said, I'm guessing your above description probably fits you to a tee- does it not?

Nope. I'm rural, not suburban or small-urban, as you appear to be. And I'm not a "skilled worker," I'm what would be referred to by the demo wonks as a "professional."

As a professional who's been to college, I fit into a different demo.

So I take it you're either radically younger or older than I thought. I'll just point out that if it's the latter, you fit into the Republican demo even better.