A Problem of Shrinkage

[CountArach]

When you use outdated terms to describe the class system I can't take you seriously.

I find the Marxist terminology far more flexible and a system built around ownership vs wealth is IMO far more applicable to society. It's how most academics refer to the world, at least in history.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

If your dad's a filthy rich capitalist pigdog, why do you work some place you have "moral qualms" about?

[CountArach]

If your dad's a filthy rich capitalist pigdog, why do you work some place you have "moral qualms" about?

Because they aren't going to fund my hobbies, etc. What does it matter anyway?

[Xiahou]

Poll: Politically conservative number up

The number of Americans saying they are politically conservative rose slightly so far this year, aligning it to the 2004 level, Gallup Poll results indicate.

Forty percent of Americans polled described their political views as conservative, 35 percent as moderate and 21 percent as liberal, poll results released Monday indicated.

More evidence that the problem for Republicans isn't being too conservative, but rather voters don't believe (with good reason)that the GOP can apply it.

[Marshal Murat]

The respondents described their views as "conservative" rather than having a set of points which would determine their political positioning. This could mean that previous moderates, if they don't agree with a "liberal" president would then shift from moderate to a conservative position in a poll, but not by voting differently.

[AlexanderSextus]

As far as i am concerned the only chance the GOP has to win in 2012 is to nominate Ron Paul as their candidate, or that other guy from New Mexico that was mentioned.

[CountArach]

As far as i am concerned the only chance the GOP has to win in 2012 is to nominate Ron Paul as their candidate, or that other guy from New Mexico that was mentioned.

Ron Paul could not win a national election. Ever.

[penguinking]

As far as i am concerned the only chance the GOP has to win in 2012 is to nominate Ron Paul as their candidate, or that other guy from New Mexico that was mentioned.

The fact that no one knows his name and instead refers to him as "that other guy from New Mexico" is a bad sign.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Romney has a shot if Obama continues to bungle it up. If the economy comes back to life, we don't have a shot in hell at the presidency. Congress IS within our grasp at any point in the future.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

If you consider Romney your great white hope for a Republican rally...

[CountArach]

Congress IS within our grasp at any point in the future.

Actually Republicans have been trailing on the generic house ballot all year. The Democrats have been polling really well recently from every polling company except Rasmussen, who generally have more Republicans in their samples and are the only ones to show the Republicans leading recently. In fact, if you take them out of the equation the Democrats have a 6-7 point lead.

Plus the Senate elections in 2010 really don't look promising for the Republicans at all.

[Lemur]

The Republican rebirth seems like it's not going to emanate from South Carolina.

State Republican leaders said they do not think online racist jokes by party activists will have a long-term impact on the party’s ability to attract black voters and candidates. [...]

GOP activist Rusty DePass apologized for the Facebook remark that likened first lady Michelle Obama’s ancestors to an escaped Riverbanks Zoo gorilla. On Tuesday, Mike Green, an employee with Lexington GOP consulting firm Starboard Communications apologized for an online joke about President Barack Obama taxing aspirin “because it’s white and it works.” [...]

“I’ve heard he has done a lot of good things in this state, and it would be a tragedy to be remembered by this event,” said Howard, who Tuesday helped push a legislative resolution to express sympathy to Michelle Obama. The proposal was stopped when Rep. Wendy Nanney, R-Greenville, objected to suspending House rules to pass the bill without a committee hearing. Five House members joined her dissent.

The Republican bid to block the resolution also did not help the party’s image. Republican leaders acknowledge they have struggled with the race issue and are working to change the perception of their party.

A stupid move in Tennessee, as well, but that's neither here nor there.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh my God.

I hadn't actually seen any seriously racist stuff coming from any Republican leaders. That's pretty lame.

My question is, is this racist **** coming from official or unofficial Republican policy or is it just a handful of really, really stupid people? I'm inclined to not jump on that as being representative of all Republicans. Of far, far more concern to me was the concerted official campaign to label Obama a terrorist who wasn't even an American during the election. That kind of kiddie bull is what actually made me label the Republican party as broken and corrupt. I'm only really interested in official Republican party activities, and from my perspective they have done far more shameful things.

A handful of racists doesn't surprise me anymore. And besides, I honestly think that there are plenty of Democratic racists. Al Sharpton needs to shut his big fat mouth as far as I'm concerned. Not a fan of Jesse Jackson. And Sonia Sotomayor may not realize it, but some of her comments do strike me as perhaps not racist, but certainly coming from a standpoint of racial pride and/or ignorance. There is no reason to think that a "wise Latina" is better than all white males. That's discriminatory as well.

There are plenty of idiots all across the political spectrum. I won't bang the drum of war over a few screw-ups in one party. I'm concerned about official party policy; let the individuals hang themselves with their own words.

[Xiahou]

I actually had to look the gorilla story up- it seemed so absurd. But yeah, he said it. I think it may have been intended as a evolution vs creationism quip that was also frighteningly ignorant of the racist implications of such a statement. Not that it makes it much better, I was just trying to determine what would motivate him to make such a stupid comment.

[Lemur]

I see what you're referring to:

DePass told WIS-TV in Columbia, "I am as sorry as I can be if I offended anyone. The comment was clearly in jest."

Then he added, "The comment was hers, not mine," claiming that Michelle Obama made a recent remark about humans descending from apes. The Daily News could find no such comment.

[CountArach]

I actually had to look the gorilla story up- it seemed so absurd. But yeah, he said it. I think it may have been intended as a evolution vs creationism quip that was also frighteningly ignorant of the racist implications of such a statement. Not that it makes it much better, I was just trying to determine what would motivate him to make such a stupid comment.

Yeah I took it to be a Evolutionist comment - but as you said that doesn't make it any less stupid.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Because they aren't going to fund my hobbies, etc. What does it matter anyway?

You're not a very good Marxist if you're going to betray your principles so quickly and without cause...

[CountArach]

You're not a very good Marxist if you're going to betray your principles so quickly and without cause...

If I have no choice but to betray my principles in order to get by in our current society then I'm afraid I am forced to betray my principles. I'm opposed to working in retail for anti-consumerist reasons and management is now making me work to upsell products and sell inferior stuff that have higher profit margins. I oppose both of these but given that I haven't got the qualifications for anything else I haven't got a choice. I could not work, but then I wouldn't be able to get to University without living at my parent's expense... which I am also opposed to.

But anyway, that's straying way too far from the topic and I don't feel I have to answer questions about my morality to you.

[Lemur]

American Conservative examines why, exactly, some Republicans have decided that Iran is the greatest attack issue evar:

One reason why Cantor and Pence have been demanding that the President take a stronger public line in support of the protesters in Iran is that supporting Mousavi’s voters openly is the emotionally satisfying, easy, almost mindless thing to do, so it is very appealing for opposition figures who have no ideas. But there is more to it than that. All of this comes back to the problem of Republican denial about why they lost power. They are supremely confident about their views on national security and foreign policy, and they cannot conceive that a majority of the country would reject them because of the policies they advocated and enacted. Worse still, they remain wedded to the hectoring, moralistic and aggressive approach of the last administration, in which sanctions and condemnation are the only “soft” tools they understand. They are so wedded to this approach that that they think this is not only the best kind of foreign policy, but that anything other than this is fecklessness and surrender. To a disturbingly great extent, replacing the current leadership may not have much of an effect on shoddy foreign policy thinking on the right, because the rot is so deep and widespread, but it is particularly important that Republicans in positions of responsibility at least attempt to play the role of credible, informed opposition, which may sometimes mean acknowledging that the President has handled an issue correctly. It will also mean building up the credibility and knowledge to challenge and resist the President if he embarks on misguided or irresponsible courses in the years to come. Cantor and Pence have shown this week that they do not have either one.

[AlexanderSextus]

Ron Paul could not win a national election. Ever.

why not?

and if this is actually true, then i'd be completely content with the fact that the GOP has no chance in hell of being a major party anymore.

i'd like to see a DP vs LP ticket in the future.

[CountArach]

why not?

He earned more money than most of the Republican candidates and yet he did not even come close to winning a single state in the primary. His policies just aren't popular at all - there are very few Americans who would willingly have his economic policies - such as the gold standard.

Further, the number of libertarians (Who one would naturaly assume would dominate the Ron Paul campaign) in the country are incredibly low:

Libertarian voters make up 4% of the nation’s likely voters and they favor Barack Obama over John McCain by a 53% to 38% margin. Three percent (3%) would vote for some other candidate and 5% are not sure. These results, from an analysis of 15,000 Likely Voter interviews conducted by Rasmussen Reports, challenges the conventional wisdom which assumes that strong support for a Libertarian candidate would hurt John McCain.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Some people beleive that Americans are generally stupid and emotional. Those same people now believe that The Republican party "Doesn't have a chance in hell of becoming a majority party". That doesn't really equate.

As long as there are stupid constituencies, they will elect stupid representatives. Hopefully, the GOP can return the Democrats to that status and start coming up with ideas of their own. They won't be able to do it using emotion and lazy patriotism.

[Hosakawa Tito]

One of the GOP's biggest problems is that they set themselves up to fail by always claiming the moral/ethical/family values/uncorruptible/small unintrusive government/I'm more patriotic than thou
high ground, and then inevitibly not delivering on it. The ratio of moral/ethic/policy failures is comparable to Democrats, but the high horse hypocracy and bald use of said "values" for purely political gains doesn't fool too many people. They need to stop listening to the radical/rabid dog neo-con fringe like Gingrich & Company and instead provide reasonable,logical,fiscally responsible opposition where it should be applied; the massive increase in budget spending and increase in federal government. Leading by example would be a nice start.

[HopAlongBunny]

I doubt the GOP will disappear.

The present crisis will not go away quickly or easily; 2 terms of Bush illustrated that you can fool most of the ppl some of the time, and that the politics of fear is still effective.

The Dem's greatest strength was a platform of inclusion and empowerment; if they fail to deliver the fall will be spectacular.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I doubt the GOP will disappear.

The present crisis will not go away quickly or easily; 2 terms of Bush illustrated that you can fool most of the ppl some of the time, and that the politics of fear is still effective.

The Dem's greatest strength was a platform of inclusion and empowerment; if they fail to deliver the fall will be spectacular.

Republicans will succeed if they promote good change rather than simply oppose bad change.

The funny thing is that the Republicans will become the party of change when the current echelons in the younger generation become middle agers. The two party system encourages a balancing act. One party is the party of stagnancy and the other of change. As constituencies age for the larger party, the smaller party goes after the young because it can afford to gamble a bit more. The situation becomes inverse.

I'm a Republican now because there is room for change. When the GOP dinosaurs die out, guys like Ryan and Paul will have a bigger voice in our party and attract younger and brighter voters - all while the geriatric democrats defend their failed policies that sounded progressive 20 years prior, scaring off the youth. Sure the politics will change,That's my take.

[KukriKhan]

I've tried, reading through the 5 pages of this thread, to generate interest in the outcome of the Republican Party.

But I've failed. I just don't care (enough) to have an opinion or a prediction about their resurrection or demise. "But, Kukri, why say anything then?", you ask.

Because:

Seems to me that the only hope for the Repubs to regroup and recoup is for the Dems to make a series of grievous mistakes. And while I have supreme faith in the Democrats' ability to lose a winning hand, I don't see President 44 as a typical Dem in this respect. That means we may face four to eight years of continuing Republican decline.

This would be a Bad Thing. We cannot become a one-party nation.

Lemur was correct there, in my opinion. Someone (a significantly large minority) needs to play the loyal opposition, to keep the current majority honest (or as honest as a political body can be).

They had their opportunity: in what everyone perceived as an emergency, we gave them the white house and both parts of congress - a move unprecedented in recent history, because we prefer a balance, despite "gridlock" - to see us through that emergency. They stumbled through that time, and a 9-11 attack didn't recur. Fine. But they went too far, piling authority onto the Executive to the point where the only thing stopping GWB being coronated was the Constitutional provision of presidential term-limits. I half-expected there to be a move in 2006 to suspend that provision "temporarily" during the by then never-ending "emergency".

But it didn't happen. Instead, we took away his congressional majority. I remember his face the day after that election. He was stunned. Surprised. One more thing he "never saw coming".

Lesson for future Presidents: America will give you whatever you need to solve an emergency, but you only get about 5 years to resolve that emergency, no longer. After that, if unresolved, we're gonna start taking away some of those tools, thinking you can't handle the job.

I think Pres. Obama gets that, hence his push to get as much done as possible as soon as possible, since we've given him the same tools GW got given. He shouldn't count on being given a congressional majority forever. His second term, if he gets one, will be more difficult than his first.

I just don't know if his opposition will be from the almost-extinct Republican Party, a wing of his own party, or some up-and-coming new group. I sense that many americans are beyond disappointment with the folks in the parties, and are more at the sick-and-tired stage. That's good for the country, I think, but not so hot for any incumbents, of either party.

[Adrian II]

American Conservative examines why, exactly, some Republicans have decided that Iran is the greatest attack issue evar [..]

I hold a different view. Mousavi's unexpected success in the Iranian elections and the enthusiasm of his followers is in many ways a result of Obama's new policy of reconciliation toward Iran. If Obama succeeds in breaking up the hard-liners' hold on Iran by continuing this policy, the whole Republican outlook on today's world and the Middle East in particular will crumble. And I won't shed a single tear if they shrink beyond recognition. They've done enough damage.

[Crazed Rabbit]

The Republican rebirth seems like it's not going to emanate from South Carolina.

That's most unfortunate, considering the governor there, Mark Sanford. He's a guy who leans libertarian and is probably one of the great hopes for revitalizing the GOP with a platform based around the present and not a rehash of Reagan (that the GOP failed to follow through on anyways).

CR

[ICantSpellDawg]

I hold a different view. Mousavi's unexpected success in the Iranian elections and the enthusiasm of his followers is in many ways a result of Obama's new policy of reconciliation toward Iran. If Obama succeeds in breaking up the hard-liners' hold on Iran by continuing this policy, the whole Republican outlook on today's world and the Middle East in particular will crumble. And I won't shed a single tear if they shrink beyond recognition. They've done enough damage.

I agree to some extent. Youths are obsessed with not feeling left out when other youths do something percieved as cool. Iranian youth is no different. Americans elected a "cool" candidate that wanted a reconciliation - Iran is stuck with a dumber and more hostile version of Bush. The youth is tired of being a repressed laughing stock to other youths and became uppity.

The outstretched hand is just a symbol of the change, imo.

Republican hostile strategy of war had nothing to do with Iran, or for that matter North Korea. I never wanted war with either of them. I have always hoped that this type of activity was inevitable. I support war in Iraq because the conventional part was going to be a cakewalk (it was) and good practice - Plus eventually they will be better off. Human beings have a problem with altitute - especially fighting wars in high altitude - especially fighting second world nations who are accustomed to it. Iran is the one of the last small nations that we would want to confront. There is simply no political or temporal payoff and the people have more freedoms there than they did in Iraq, anyway.

I don't dislike Obama's policy toward Iran - it is just a new way to acheive a collapse of the theocracy without war which is a shared goal, lets try it.

[HopAlongBunny]

Republicans will succeed if they promote good change rather than simply oppose bad change.

I agree. I think any renewal will come from clearly articulated policy that lines up with Americans' needs and desires.