Should BtSH call it quits?

[navarro951]

In light of the downtime that has happened i believe it is time to discuss the discontinuation of BtSH. I place the blame souly on myself, perhaps i could have done more to keep it interesting, but I enjoyed all of you who stuck it out with me to now. TCV, everyone, and Bean you guys are the greatest i have here and I appreciate your playing. Most likely i think this game will come to an end now, and i think it should.

[johnhughthom]

Just to let you know I have posted in my interactive AAR to try and get people to check this out again. I'm not sure if it will work as interest in the AAR seems to be dwindling but I didn't want this to die without trying to help out some way. Good luck.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

seems to be similar in the PBM's, at the begining they can drum up huge support and have tons of players, but eventually people just drop out or lose intreast until there is nothing left but just a few people.

[/Bean\]

Like I said in the OOC, I'd love to vote No, but I think we've lost it, to be honest. Lets cut our losses while it's still enjoyable, gather everything we've learned and use it in the future to create the best ever PBM ever ever.

[navarro951]

Just to let you know I have posted in my interactive AAR to try and get people to check this out again. I'm not sure if it will work as interest in the AAR seems to be dwindling but I didn't want this to die without trying to help out some way. Good luck.

i apprciate that very much and will tune into your AAR to support it.

Like I said in the OOC, I'd love to vote No, but I think we've lost it, to be honest. Lets cut our losses while it's still enjoyable, gather everything we've learned and use it in the future to create the best ever PBM ever ever.

i must regretfully agree...

[Ghaust the Moor]

I would vote no. You guys have worked too hard and too long to let this die. I think plenty of people like this. I think you guys should advertise more. Do more posting in all of the EB related forums, maybe that will get people intrested. It got me. I think its just people are busy and need to be reminded of the commitent they took when they sign up.

[/Bean\]

We've had loads of people sign up in the last month. About two actually remained active. With al our veteren players leaving or simply disappearing, and none of the new people making it up for it, we're on the ropes...I've been PMing every Rome enthusiast looking person I've seen in the EB forums, but I get so few replies its hardly worth the effort.

[everyone]

As far I would say, I wouldn't want this to end (not because my character is in a high position), but because playing as a Roman faction would require and allow lots of RPing; although there isn't much now because 'historically', it's in the wrong period, or we're playing too fast. perhaps we could change it to quasi-historical, like LotR (Byzantine, but feudal); so as to remove the high RP restrictions, or the rate of progress.

but if we are to start a new one, I would suggest a poll be set up to decide the attributes of it, as in how it is played. such as:
-gameplay speed (fast progression, taking things slowly, etc)
-Historical RPing (limiting how one's character behaves and thinks)
-Character's rank/social mobility (how easily/difficult it is to advance, and what opportunities are given)


right now I would say BtSH is:
-slow, because only the CoL could be on an 'official' campaign, and he selects his theatre, though it used to be fast, legions were allowed to be sent anywhere to conquer anyone for whatever RP reason made up.
-high historical RPing limits ("stop thinking from the point of mini but from the point of Quintus Aemilius Regillus" - swissbarbar) since we're still in the middle republic era and not late republic, where things were still relatively smooth.
-good rank mobility (mini's cursus honorum, since you don't necessarily need to lead an army to be promoted)

but even if more people vote for it to end, I would say update the FAQ, library, history (hasn't been done so in a long time, and probably few people are playing less often because of that), start a small advertising campaign (PMing, not posting, I think it's rather impolite to just post, unless we're allowed), go for a session, or half a session and see how things go.

and also, if nobody is really interested in continuing BtSH, may I suggest for a new game, I've already got a small draft (of a new gameplay) typed out (from a month ago, because I was thinking of making another PBM, but decided against it as there were too many).

edit: reading through this, I realised that my arguments are crappily-phrased and badly argued.

[mini]

I abstain on all laws!

Still, navarro you did a bang up job. Nobody is to blame and least of all you.

I think the activity in the throne room in general is dwindling..

Hopefully things will peak again in the near future, and that's when we will recreate this.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

you know what, navarro951 switch my vote to yes.... bean is right we had a good run and lets end it on a high note

[/Bean\]

@Everyone: I send PM's to every Roman looking enthusiast I could find on the EB forums at least once a night, to see if they wanted to join. Like I said, I got such little response that I practically gave up. I think Decimvs was the only one who actually answered and joined, though we only saw him once or twice.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Having watched this PBM progress for a few months now, I'll be sad to see BtSH go. For a while this game was the most active and compelling one in the Throne Room, what with the saga of Eprius and of course all the great storylines that went with Cotta's meteoric rise. There's something about playing Rome that just makes it more... special... than any of the other factions. If you can keep it going, I personally would like to see it continue.

However, as players, you would know better than me. If there's just not enough players, then there's not enough players. I think a big part of this is the triumvirate of Blasio, Cotta, and Manius Claudius that always manages to be in the power roles. In my experience, I've found that competition makes for a more compelling and interactive game. So my suggestion is to incorporate all three Consul roles into one general one: Consul. Now, instead of having three ultra-powerful Senators shifting roles and working together, you suddenly have three of them gunning for the the top (and only) spot. All of a sudden, we have plotting. All of a sudden, you have players working harder, now not only trying to defeat the AI but one-up each other as well.

This is just the two cents of an outside observer, but I think with a bit of rule tweaking, BtSH still has some life left in it.

[/Bean\]

To be honest, I'd be much more into restarting than continuing. We should take what we've learnt and initiate it from the beginning of the game, with new characters and plot lines, protocols of IC and OOC work, and someone to help Navarro. It's no fault of his, but he can't be expected to uphold all the different admin jobs by himself throughout the entire game.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

I am up for that, should be fun to start over from the begining. And If you guys need help, I am always free.

[mini]

Having watched this PBM progress for a few months now, I'll be sad to see BtSH go. For a while this game was the most active and compelling one in the Throne Room, what with the saga of Eprius and of course all the great storylines that went with Cotta's meteoric rise. There's something about playing Rome that just makes it more... special... than any of the other factions. If you can keep it going, I personally would like to see it continue.

However, as players, you would know better than me. If there's just not enough players, then there's not enough players. I think a big part of this is the triumvirate of Blasio, Cotta, and Manius Claudius that always manages to be in the power roles. In my experience, I've found that competition makes for a more compelling and interactive game. So my suggestion is to incorporate all three Consul roles into one general one: Consul. Now, instead of having three ultra-powerful Senators shifting roles and working together, you suddenly have three of them gunning for the the top (and only) spot. All of a sudden, we have plotting. All of a sudden, you have players working harder, now not only trying to defeat the AI but one-up each other as well.

This is just the two cents of an outside observer, but I think with a bit of rule tweaking, BtSH still has some life left in it.

Well

I reformed the whole ranking system and basically created an entire new cursus honorum, which would work great with a sufficient player base.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Agreed, but the problem is we have to work with what we have. Right now, you guys don't have the base necessary for the reforms to be in full effect.

[Caius]

I could be in for this game, but I am not sure. I will try to appear here if possible.

[TinCow]

It's worth noting that there are currently THREE EB-based PBMs going on. That is surely diluting the player-base a good deal. If you all assembled into a single game, you'd probably be able to sustain more momentum for a longer period. I understand that not everyone wants to play the factions chosen in the other games, but that's what compromise is all about. LotR's faction was decided based on a poll, and we all played what the majority wanted to play, even though a good number of us weren't keen on Byzantium.

[Iskander 3.1]

I agree that we should end this on a high note. Everyone here has made some good points, and I think that it would be best to wait a little while before implementing a new EB PBM. Maybe have a few people put their heads together and decide what might be best, and after a month or so we could see if there's enough interest to launch a new game.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

yeah, we have three diffrent pbms at the moment, and I can see how that many could cause problems. and I think taking a few months hiatus should be good, we might come back to find a batch of new people intrested in the game. (of course WotB will still be here, and we always need to new players! shameless advertisment I know, but its a council session and I think we have hardly had 10 posts in it.... and my own personal council hasnt had a response yet. hint hint mini, iskander and everyone)

[mini]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=116497

[The Celtic Viking]

First of all, thank you Navarro, and I think mini (I think? ) is right: it's not a fault of yours, not yours specifically at least. If someone is to be blamed, I would look to blame everyone. (THAT JOKE NEVER GETS OLD, DANG IT!) Seriously though, no, there's no blame to be put on anyone.

I voted we should end this as well. It's not really because I wouldn't ideally like to see it continue, but I just don't see it.

[everyone]

ok on second thought, abstain my vote.
I'd rather the PBM restart, than we chose another faction, since we already have a system in place, but failed to get enough members/enthusiasm and also did not manage to clarify what exactly happens (up till now I'm still not sure about some stuff mentioned in mini's reforms).
perhaps since the EB PBM field is saturated.
but restarting may also be rather monotonous (repeating the first few boring turns where nobody other than the consuls and the commander of Legio I takes the save and conquers everything adjacent to the roman starting territory). perhaps the new GM should play a roman savegame (in the case if we are to restart) up till around the end of the 1st punic war (or maybe before it); like a succession game, then at that moment we the save up and continue with the PBM.

[johnhughthom]

Check out my Interactive AAR, I have a save at 240BC, Polybian barracks on the way and shedloads of cash. It's EB 1.2 H/M huge unit sizes. It sounds like exactly what you are asking for. http://files.filefront.com/Romani240.../fileinfo.html
I would definately be up for a replayed Romani EB PBM if 1.2 was used.

[navarro951]

so i have decided what will happen, I will be closing BtSH but not entirely. I will play out the last turns until our next congressional council by myself. I will then update everything getting us back up to speed and include one long consul report as to what went down during my time playing. Then i will get back in touch with all of you who are till frequents to The Guild, and we will do a quick bit of re recruiting in ALL eb forums and continue on. If that doesnt work, then I will end this crusade. So from here on out BtSH is closed until its "Grand Reopening"

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

sounds good, I egerly await our grand reveal!

[navarro951]

i do as well.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Now I am regretting letting my little secret out.... ohh well I am still worth something as a tribune of the plebs atleast, and with swiss gone Bean needs a new right hand man!

[everyone]

and we need some new opposition. I'm beginning to suspect all selfish/disloyal characters.

[/Bean\]

Caivs Avrelivs might die, and I might restart as Titvs...