Evolution v Creationism

[Ice]

Yeah it was coming eventually.

So, some folks of the EB Tavern think my idea that we humans might not have a common ancestor with apes to be absurd. To clear some things up before people make false assumptions, I think it is clear that the earth is billions of years old, and that human life on it goes way back beyond a few thousand years. Also, I do not deny that evolution is a very real thing, and I think the artificial distinction between micro/macro evolution is not really based on anything.

So, you all know I'm a religious fellow and I but my faith in the good book, and from my understanding of it it is hard to see where Darwin's ideas on humans origins fit in. However, if the evidence for us sharing a common ancestor with other creatures is truly overwhelming, then I will consider changing my position.

I never really took Biology beyond the early years of secondary school, it is one of the few subjects I dropped at Standard Grade level. So, when people have been having the good old evolution v creationism argument I have to admit I mostly don't know what they are talking about.

So, don't tell me religious people never change their views, I will see what the Darwinist side has to offer, and I will consider if theistic evolution is possible (won't be becoming atheist though, sorry guys ).

From what little I have looked into this, I wouldn't say that genetic similarities are enough to suggest we are related. It's not surpising they exist, we live on the same planet and need to exist in the same environment after all. So, what I need to see are the links, that are clearly actual bridges between the species, and not just similarities.

Now, I'll await the barrage...

A biology class would be very helpful in your comparison of evolution and creationism.

[JAG]

Rhyfelwyr View Post, where you been man, there has been a whole series of programmes on the BBC over the last months, due to it being such a significant year, in terms of evolution and Darwin. Even watchign some of the quite brilliant programmes that have been shown would have helped you understand the concept and the reality of evolution.

(I believe you are from the UK)

[Rhyfelwyr]

Thanks for those links folks, I'll give them a good read tomorrow.

Rhyfelwyr View Post, where you been man, there has been a whole series of programmes on the BBC over the last months, due to it being such a significant year, in terms of evolution and Darwin. Even watchign some of the quite brilliant programmes that have been shown would have helped you understand the concept and the reality of evolution.

(I believe you are from the UK)

I watched one of the episodes, but a lot of it was about how Darwin thought his children acted like monkeys, which just shows similarities not necessarily a direct connection. And then they started playing the flute to a worm which was just weird...

[JAG]

Watch the one with Attenborough, brilliant. Literally one of the best informative programmes I have ever seen.

[Don Corleone]

While I absoutely and ardently hold to evolution (one does not 'believe' the leading theory of the day, one 'believes' religious dogma, one holds to a theory), it is depressing to me the number of people who claim it as fact without 1) understanding that it is an untestable theory can never be accepted as fact (indicating a woeful ignorance of science) and for the record, to the tests we can currently construct, gravity and electromagnetism (where I make my living) are still theories as well and 2) understanding the mechanism of natural selection (indicating a woeful misunderstanding of the theory put forth by Charles Darwin, and the 'evolution' it has enjoyed over the past 1.5 centuries).

If I hear one more person talking about frogs & ducks growing webbed feet to swim, or humans growing a thumb, as proof of evolution, I'm going to scream.

We ALL need to learn how much we have to learn in this field.

For example, it would probably surprise most people to learn that fossil evidence strongly indicates evolution follows a quantum/logarithmic, not a linear time scale, as most theories would have predicted.

For me, that 'spark' that generates the sudden burst of RNA energy, that is the fine hand of the creator at work. (Before you all mistake my last statement, I understand solar flares and the affect of algae blooms absorbing free radicals better than most of you, my point is, why does it all happen exactly when it does... I do not believe in 'luck', just randomness or determinism.).

I suppose that makes me a creationist, and in this forum at least, an idiot.

[Hooahguy]

wheres Che?

[CBR]

In science something can both be a fact as well as a theory. And evolution happens to belong in that category. It might be confusing to some but nonetheless it is a fact


CBR

[Lemur]

I suppose that makes me a creationist, and in this forum at least, an idiot.

Actually, plenty of scientists believe that there is a role for a Creator in our universe, and your position sounds quite mainstream. When people refer to "creationism," they usually aren't talking about the notion that one accepts modern biology, geology and astronomy while reserving a role for a Maker. That's not really "creation science."

When I hear someone say that they believe in creationism, I usually check to see which manner of creationism they're talking about. Do they mean the Earth's age can be determined by tracing back the lineage of patriarchs described in the Bible? Or do they mean that they think God had a hand in shaping the universe? Big difference.

[Fixiwee]

I am a bit late with quoting that, but...

Actually, plenty of scientists believe that there is a role for a Creator in our universe, and your position sounds quite mainstream.

... I have to post this:

According to a 1998 survey of members of the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), nearly 95 percent of NAS biologists are atheists or agnostics.
source: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...TZhMzJiZjJmMzI

[a completely inoffensive name]

Tbh, I think in order to criticize anything you need to know about it. I also suggest taking a Bio class before taking on the subject of evolution.

EDIT: Does anyone want me to post the conversation from the EB Tavern between Rhy and The Celtic Viking about this subject? There are no swears or anything.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Rhyfelwyr View Post,

I have trouble spelling his name too

where you been man, there has been a whole series of programmes on the BBC over the last months, due to it being such a significant year, in terms of evolution and Darwin. Even watchign some of the quite brilliant programmes that have been shown would have helped you understand the concept and the reality of evolution.

(I believe you are from the UK)

Tbh, I think in order to criticize anything you need to know about it. I also suggest taking a Bio class before taking on the subject of evolution.

I don't think ya'll read his post carefully. He's asking about anthropology not biology.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I don't think ya'll read his post carefully. He's asking about anthropology not biology.

Well it spilled somewhat into a mixture of both in the EB Tavern social group. Him and TCV went into arguing about the significance of humans sharing 98% of their DNA with apes etc...

EDIT: Again, should I post the conversation from the EB Tavern, it could clear some things up about the origin of this thread.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I believe in God, and believe the almighty could have created the whole shebang, whole-cloth, in 6 calendar days had God chosen to do so.

I do not believe that is the means God chose. "Let there be light," began the show and evolution has rolled onwards from there. Mysterious ways and all that.

[woad&fangs]

If I remember correctly, one of the main evidences for ape -> human evolution is the similarity in our chromosome number and structure.

here is a quick link explaining the similarities

An example of this in the animal kingdom is the relationship between the wild Mongolian horse and modern domestic horse. Mongolian wild horses have 66 chromosomes and modern horses have only 64 chromosomes. Despite this, they are able to reproduce with each other due to their high degree of genetic similarity. http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/h...lski/index.htm