Evolution v Creationism

**Rhyfelwyr** · 05-19-2009, 22:50

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

I have already declared a Chee-had against the infidel. However, just like in other religions, when you declare a Chee-had, it is instead an inner, spiritual struggle. We fight using our minds.

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I hope you haven't abandoned the fiery little leprechaun god.

**Sasaki Kojiro** · 05-19-2009, 22:53

Pizza, you have some strange beliefs

**Askthepizzaguy** · 05-19-2009, 23:02

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

I hope you haven't abandoned the fiery little leprechaun god.

HE ABANDONED ME FIRST!!! I leave him messages on his answering machine saying things like:

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"Hi, it's the pizzaguy. Love that green outfit. What are you doing Saturday Night? By the way, can you please let my local sports team win the pennant? Thanks. -Amen"

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"Hey it's me again. I'm sorry I forgot to add that I'd really love to win the lottery. Could you make that happen? Thanks. -Amen

Oh, PS- where does life begin?"

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As you can see, since he doesn't return my phone calls, he abandoned me first. Or he's dead. But the important thing is that even though he doesn't talk to me, I continue to pray to him and ask him to change his Divine Plan, even though it wouldn't be much of a Divine Plan if he changed it to suit my whims.

Originally Posted by Sigurd

Argumentum ad Hominem with the sub fallacy; Refutation by Caricature.

Much of the religious argument against evolution comes from the argument from ignorance. See also "God of the Gaps".

**Rhyfelwyr** · 05-19-2009, 23:22

Heh, well Yahweh is very real to me, in everything I do. It follows that since the message of the New Testament is so real to me, so is that of the Old Testament, Jesus was fulfilling those scriptures after all. Plus, you've got to admit, Daniel didn't do bad predicting the year of Jesus' death, and all the prophecies concerning Israel etc.

On a side note, if you were comparing your prayer to the Christian version, it's not quite like that. Trying to work through prayer is like trying to do stuff in the Matrix - Jesus says you have to know your prayer will be answered, otherwise you were not in accordance with God's will in the first place! Stop trying to hit me and hit me... see what I mean?

**Askthepizzaguy** · 05-19-2009, 23:28

I always knew Christianity was like the Matrix. Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm just having fun, I believe that the real arguments have been passed back and forth, and ultimately since Creationism is a religious argument not based upon science but upon Scripture, there is nothing that can be said to change one's mind.

To call it a debate is silly because there is one side of the issue which won't budge regardless of evidence or argument, if it is based upon religion, because religion requires faith and faith isn't really evidence, and is considered superior to evidence by the faithful. I'm willing to discuss the real facts, but there is no alternative theory at the moment grounded in science and based upon evidence. There is only religion and skepticism. Skepticism I buy, because that is simply the position that we cannot know. However, even then, one should not totally dismiss evidence. As for religion, it hasn't advanced our knowledge of the universe, only our belief in aspects of it, and beyond, so they are different unrelated things.

As for prayer, in all honesty it can't hurt. However, it shouldn't be relied upon instead of medicine, for example.

Originally Posted by Sigurd

Argumentum ad Hominem Tu Quoque

You win the argument by default because your vocabulary is superior to my own. Curse my distaste of Latin!

**Rhyfelwyr** · 05-19-2009, 23:44

That's fair enough, but remember a lot of people who argue against religion do so because they don't like some of its (debatable) effects. Things like holding back science, causing wars etc don't really do anything to prove whether the belief system is right or not.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 05-19-2009, 23:49

Whether it is right or not is not knowable by any living being.

If one can remain skeptical of science, one needs to rely on the argument that we don't know everything, which puts religion on equal or lesser footing than science, because science relies on a foundation of impartial reasoning and evidence rather than a series of unprovable assumptions involving the supernatural.

If we aren't discussing whether it is true or not, we can discuss that the unwavering certainty of any viewpoint, and the intolerance of those who hold that view to opposing viewpoints, does usually result in negative effects on mankind, regardless of the truth of the message.

If I were set out to prove that 1+1=2, regardless of how true it is, would I be right to go to war over it, or to attempt to stop all attempts to research alternative theories, or to persecute those who believe there could be other answers? No... even if we "know" we are right, we have to accept that "being right doesn't give us the right" to do wrong. One can freely argue for intelligent design, or debate any scientific viewpoint. However, it rarely stops there. It usually ends when the offending viewpoint is abolished or declared heretical or illegal, if we base this on historical precedent. In recent years, it has reared its head once more, to infringe upon the rights of the individual.

Science and religion can coexist, but just like voodoo and astrophysics, they belong in different books.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 05-19-2009, 23:55

I think there's a bit of debate about whether or not it could be "knowable" by a little human such as ourselves. I came across a discussion once about whether religious experiences could be self-authenticating, in that they give a person 100% (no 99.999's) assurance of their truthfulness, beyond even the certainty you could place in your own minds reliability.

That's a horrendeously complicated debate, and again I suppose it wouldn't prove Christianity, just perhaps, if won, prove that some of its claims are possible.