Evolution v Creationism

[Rhyfelwyr]

Using the same argument some use against the idea of proof, how can you use a religious "experience" as evidence of anything? The mind can dream, the mind can forget, mis-remember, misinterpret, misdiagnose, not to mention hallucinate. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if someone has a religious experience, it doesn't count as scientific knowledge unless the results can be repeated, predicted, and observed by neutral observers.

But the debate is whether or not the knowledge can be self-authenticating. It wouldn't need to be proved or tested, but is instead made valid by it's own inherent truthfulness. I'm not arguing whether or not this has happened, but whether or not it is theoretically possible.

[Kadagar_AV]

But the debate is whether or not the knowledge can be self-authenticating. It wouldn't need to be proved or tested, but is instead made valid by it's own inherent truthfulness. I'm not arguing whether or not this has happened, but whether or not it is theoretically possible.

You got to be kidding?

So basicly, we'd have to accept anyones truth as, well, the truth?

The freaky guy who is sure that aliens visit us, and they use anal probes... We have to take him seriosly as "he knows it is so".

You want a society where any idiot can claim something is true, and then it is the truth?

If not, why don't we stick to science, where we test stuff, and repeat the tests, and so on...

Again, I sincerely hope your post was a joke.

But to answer your question: NO that is not theoretically possible.

[Rhyfelwyr]

You got to be kidding?

So basicly, we'd have to accept anyones truth as, well, the truth?

The freaky guy who is sure that aliens visit us, and they use anal probes... We have to take him seriosly as "he knows it is so".

You want a society where any idiot can claim something is true, and then it is the truth?

If not, why don't we stick to science, where we test stuff, and repeat the tests, and so on...

Again, I sincerely hope your post was a joke.

But to answer your question: NO that is not theoretically possible.

Well I'm glad you put so much thought into it, obviously the countless discussions on the matter are meaningless because you have the answer.

And no, nobody would have to support anyone making such a claim, because only the person making the claim would know if it was true, and they would be aware that only they could be expected to know that it is true. If someone tells me he has total assurance that aliens visit us, then I say fine go with it, I'll believe it if I am ever granted such knowledge myself.

[Kadagar_AV]

Well I'm glad you put so much thought into it, obviously the countless discussions on the matter are meaningless because you have the answer.

And no, nobody would have to support anyone making such a claim, because only the person making the claim would know if it was true, and they would be aware that only they could be expected to know that it is true. If someone tells me he has total assurance that aliens visit us, then I say fine go with it, I'll believe it if I am ever granted such knowledge myself.

Exactly, and it's the same with religion.

Fine, go with it, I'll believe it if I am granted such knowledge myself.

Untill then, I'll stick to repeatable scientifical research :)

[Rhyfelwyr]

Exactly, and it's the same with religion.

Fine, go with it, I'll believe it if I am granted such knowledge myself.

Untill then, I'll stick to repeatable scientifical research :)

Which nobody argued against.

But remember you came into this thread to tell me that I can never use science to prove my ideas.

[Kadagar_AV]

Which nobody argued against.

But remember you came into this thread to tell me that I can never use science to prove my ideas.

Have you tried?

EDIT: And if you tried, what was the result? And what method did you use?

[Rhyfelwyr]

Have you tried?

EDIT: And if you tried, what was the result? And what method did you use?

Personally, no. But then neither have most poeple who believe we evolved from ape-like creatures (or is it lemurs now?), they just accept what scientists tell them and then say OMG creationist ROFL.

Earlier on, you were arguing I have no right to try since I would be going into the study with presuppositions, and if I did I should be ignored.