How was ancient Sparta ruled?

**Calypze** · 05-02-2009, 15:50

How was ancient Sparta ruled? There seems to have been a dual kingship, yet Sparta is often considered to have been an oligarchy rather than a monarchy. Can someone please clarify?

Did the way Sparta was ruled remain essentially the same, or did it change? For example, was it ruled the same way when they repelled the Persians as during the EB era?

Also, from what I know, there were to social groups, or castes - Spartiates and Helots. Did the Helots have any role in war? Did they only farm, or did they trade as well?

**mosedavid** · 05-02-2009, 16:44

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_Ruled_Ancient_Sparta

**/Bean\** · 05-02-2009, 17:47

Before Bovi gets wind of this:

Google seems to be down a lot lately...

Muhahahahaha! I nicked his favourite saying.

**Phalanx300** · 05-03-2009, 01:47

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartan_Constitution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Sparta

**antisocialmunky** · 05-03-2009, 03:28

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerard_Butler

Yeah hotlinking!

**Apázlinemjó** · 05-03-2009, 06:20

Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerard_Butler

Yeah hotlinking!

He is the true Leonidas, not just an actor, shame wiki.

**Celtic_Punk** · 05-04-2009, 04:19

Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerard_Butler

Yeah hotlinking!

why? *shakes head*
anyone who mentions that god awful movie when people are trying to discuss REALITY should be crucified, drawn and quartered.

There were some good parts about how sparta was run during the persian wars and during the pelopenesian wars in my book "The Greeks at War : From Athens to Alexander" by Philip de Souza, Waldemar Heckel, and Lloyd Llewellyn-Jones ISBN 978-1-84176-856-4
check it out, if you are interested in greek warfare you'll enjoy this book. I picked it up at the british museum for around 20 quid.

**Maion Maroneios** · 05-04-2009, 16:14

Originally Posted by Calypze

How was ancient Sparta ruled? There seems to have been a dual kingship, yet Sparta is often considered to have been an oligarchy rather than a monarchy. Can someone please clarify?

Did the way Sparta was ruled remain essentially the same, or did it change? For example, was it ruled the same way when they repelled the Persians as during the EB era?

Also, from what I know, there were to social groups, or castes - Spartiates and Helots. Did the Helots have any role in war? Did they only farm, or did they trade as well?

1) The dual kingship system of the Spartiatai, does not mean had a dual monarchy. You see, the ones that pulled the strings in reality, were the 5 ephors of Sparte (elected annually, IIRC). So it was really oligarchic instead of a plain monarchy. Also, I believe the purposes of each king was different. One was in charge of the military, the other of the state.

2) Yes, or at least there were no great changes. But you will have to understand the very core of the governship of Lakedaimon. It relied purely upon the Homioi, or Equals. They belonged to the upper class of society, everyone else was below them. They were the ones who participated in the Ekklesia tou Demou (the People's Assembly), albeit after the age of 30 I believe (which was the age when they became official citizens of the state), and they were responsible of protecting their homeland whenever they were called upon by their officials.

The training of the Spartiatai, the Agoge, was harsh. Very harsh. From the age of 7 up to the age of 56, they had to serve their country. In that time, they constantly drilled in the arts of war, plus did many kind of sports and gymnastics/calisthenics and the like. The ones that failed, were stigmatized forever and were denied citizenship. Thus, it can be understood I believe, that after many years of constant warfare, their numbers degenerated with a steady rate. The Spartiatai, being very traditional, did not allow "fresh blood" to attain the Agoge and replenish the numbers of Spartiatai. As such, it is known that at one point in the Hellenistic Era (around the time of EB), the actual Homioi were down from the original number of 9,000, to a mere 700. You understand the magnitude of this, don't you?

Another thing that went very wrong, was the share of property. Lykourgos (the guy who wrote the Spartan laws), had divided the lands of the Spartiatai equally among the Homioi. Each one of them, had a certain amount of Helots to till their lands. They, in turn, had to give a certain amount of the annual harvest to their master, keeping the rest for themselves. That amount was, by the way, a standard and didn't change, so the Helots were motivated to work hard, as to keep as much as they can for themselves. Anyway, the Homioi had to give part of their incomes to the state. This included grain for bread, olives, grapes, wine and the like for the Sissitia, or dining halls were the Homioi gathered to eat alltogether. Now, as the time went by, more and more Homioi were failing the Agoge and other Homioi took their possessions, becoming richer ad richer. So you have this "shift" of property, creating "poor" and "wealthy" citizens, something that didn't exist (in such a great deal) during the Classical Age.

There were people, like Kleomenes, who brought extensive reforms, in a futile attempt to save Sparte from the inevitable. Sure, their work was well-intentioned and aimed to give Sparte back her old, shining glory, but the state was in an advanced state of degeneration. The rich didn't want equality with the poor, wars had cost the Spartiatai loss of most of their former lands plus (at some point) loss of their privileges over the Helots, and of course the small number of the Spartiatai meant that it would be inevitable for Sparte to fall. They didn't walk along with the times, you see. One of the brightest examples of what happens when you don't

3) I believe you can find many things about the social system of the Spartiatai from above. Any additional things would probably be that fact that the Helots did take part in wars. Their numbers were just not that great, because before the Persian Wars it was customary only for the citizen army of a polis to wage war. After the Persian Wars and, most importantly, the Peloponnesian War, the usage of Helots and Perioikoi (those who lived in poleis allied to ad around Sparte herself) became more frequent and extensive. As for trade, from what I know the only ones who bothered were the Perioikoi. Note that Sparte was a closed society, and thus didn't trade much. Plus, their currency had almost zero value compared with, say, an Athenian drachme.

Maion

**Phalanx300** · 05-04-2009, 20:30

1) The dual kingship system of the Spartiatai, does not mean had a dual monarchy. You see, the ones that pulled the strings in reality, were the 5 ephors of Sparte (elected annually, IIRC). So it was really oligarchic instead of a plain monarchy. Also, I believe the purposes of each king was different. One was in charge of the military, the other of the state.

The Spartan kings would be chief priests of the state and would be the generals of the army, also things like succesion was taken care of them. But yeah the Ephors had more power then them. Yet the most important things like war or peace was made by the Apella! All Spartan citizens could vote.

2) Yes, or at least there were no great changes. But you will have to understand the very core of the governship of Lakedaimon. It relied purely upon the Homioi, or Equals. They belonged to the upper class of society, everyone else was below them. They were the ones who participated in the Ekklesia tou Demou (the People's Assembly), albeit after the age of 30 I believe (which was the age when they became official citizens of the state), and they were responsible of protecting their homeland whenever they were called upon by their officials.

There is a small difference, the laws of Lycurgus weren't fully followed anymore, in the old times having gold was dispised yet at latter times they showed off their wealth. The Spartans also became more obsessed with ruling then at excelling at their given position.

Basicly if they would have followed the laws of Lycurgus then their golden age would have lasted far longer.

The training of the Spartiatai, the Agoge, was harsh. Very harsh. From the age of 7 up to the age of 56, they had to serve their country. In that time, they constantly drilled in the arts of war, plus did many kind of sports and gymnastics/calisthenics and the like. The ones that failed, were stigmatized forever and were denied citizenship. Thus, it can be understood I believe, that after many years of constant warfare, their numbers degenerated with a steady rate. The Spartiatai, being very traditional, did not allow "fresh blood" to attain the Agoge and replenish the numbers of Spartiatai. As such, it is known that at one point in the Hellenistic Era (around the time of EB), the actual Homioi were down from the original number of 9,000, to a mere 700. You understand the magnitude of this, don't you?

They had to serve from 7 till 60, with them joining the army at the age of 20. But there were Spartan hoplites recorded which were older then 60! Leonidas himself probably was far in his 50s as well.

The main reason of their numbers dropping wasn´t because of so many failing the agoge, it was mainly because those without property couldn´t pay the messes and thus couldn´t be citizens. And only the first borns could get the property.

An earthquake apparently killed many Spartans as well which resulted in Spartan women owning the land and them passing it on to their new husbands and thus creating the rich and poor, which wasn´t what the laws of Lycurgus intended! There aren´t called Equals for nothing.

Another thing that went very wrong, was the share of property. Lykourgos (the guy who wrote the Spartan laws), had divided the lands of the Spartiatai equally among the Homioi. Each one of them, had a certain amount of Helots to till their lands. They, in turn, had to give a certain amount of the annual harvest to their master, keeping the rest for themselves. That amount was, by the way, a standard and didn't change, so the Helots were motivated to work hard, as to keep as much as they can for themselves. Anyway, the Homioi had to give part of their incomes to the state. This included grain for bread, olives, grapes, wine and the like for the Sissitia, or dining halls were the Homioi gathered to eat alltogether. Now, as the time went by, more and more Homioi were failing the Agoge and other Homioi took their possessions, becoming richer ad richer. So you have this "shift" of property, creating "poor" and "wealthy" citizens, something that didn't exist (in such a great deal) during the Classical Age.

Yep.

There were people, like Kleomenes, who brought extensive reforms, in a futile attempt to save Sparte from the inevitable. Sure, their work was well-intentioned and aimed to give Sparte back her old, shining glory, but the state was in an advanced state of degeneration. The rich didn't want equality with the poor, wars had cost the Spartiatai loss of most of their former lands plus (at some point) loss of their privileges over the Helots, and of course the small number of the Spartiatai meant that it would be inevitable for Sparte to fall. They didn't walk along with the times, you see. One of the brightest examples of what happens when you don't

Inevitable is a big word, they simply stopped at certain points to fully follow the laws of Lycurgus. Like not fighting the same enemy in order that they can´t make any counter tactics, which Epidomnonas was able to do at Leuktra.

3) I believe you can find many things about the social system of the Spartiatai from above. Any additional things would probably be that fact that the Helots did take part in wars. Their numbers were just not that great, because before the Persian Wars it was customary only for the citizen army of a polis to wage war. After the Persian Wars and, most importantly, the Peloponnesian War, the usage of Helots and Perioikoi (those who lived in poleis allied to ad around Sparte herself) became more frequent and extensive. As for trade, from what I know the only ones who bothered were the Perioikoi. Note that Sparte was a closed society, and thus didn't trade much. Plus, their currency had almost zero value compared with, say, an Athenian drachme.

There would be at least 1 helot accompanying a Spartiatai in campaign, mainly to do chores but they probably fought as light psiloi as well. At later times and in times of need Helots were liberated after a certain time as a Hoplite to have a bigger fighting force, you could realise that freedom was wanted and many would fight for Sparta. Like when Thebes invaded Lakonia, 2000 Helots rose up to protect Sparta!

**Maion Maroneios** · 05-05-2009, 11:06