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Thread: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

  1. #1
    Honorary Argentinian Senior Member Gyroball Champion, Karts Champion Caius's Avatar
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    Default Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Hello people,

    I was wondering if there were interested people that want to take place in a (hopefully) near time debate. I was looking at the social groups of teh org and I saw a Communist/Socialist group and a "Orgah Capitalist Lounge". It would bve agood idea for me if both grups got more people and they discussed how great yer ideology is. The Group owner should post in the Debate thread, and the other discusses and replies and so on.

    Do you support the idea?

    Caius




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  2. #2
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    A debate would be interesting, although I think few people would identify with the purest forms of either ideology. Usually a combination is best, depending upon the specific circumstances of the country or region.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  3. #3
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    A debate would be interesting, although I think few people would identify with the purest forms of either ideology. Usually a combination is best, depending upon the specific circumstances of the country or region.
    that's technically true, since modern economies are quite different from the laissez-faire spirit of the 19th century. Modern socialists (they continue to exist for some reason) still call them capitalist though.

    And according to most of them, the Soviet Union etc. weren't really socialist either. I suppose that socialism really is a utopia, existing only in the minds of people who post on the internet.
    Last edited by Kralizec; 05-03-2009 at 02:13.

  4. #4
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec View Post
    that's technically true, since modern economies are quite different from the laissez-faire spirit of the 19th century. Modern socialists (they continue to exist for some reason) still call them capitalist though.

    And according to most of them, the Soviet Union etc. weren't really socialist either. I suppose that socialism really is a utopia, existing only in the minds of people who post on the internet.
    Actually, socialism was supposed to be transitory state, because real communism was supposed to be an utopia, kinda like Star Trek 23th century earth - there's no money and there's everything in abundance. All "communist" countries thought of themselves socialist (Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) because there was still a long way to go to reach that utopia that was pure communism...

  5. #5
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Actually, socialism was supposed to be transitory state
    In Marx' theory about socialism, yes. Marx' vision of a communist society was more or less the same as that of anarchists - the key difference being that anarchists didn't see the need for a transitionary state.

    Most self-described socialists in western Europe are just rebels without a clue though, who view Marx as something of an icon.

  6. #6
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    If you could get any team of people to agree on a definition of their own ideology, then sure.. but otherwise...

    I mean, some of the discussions we were having in the Socialist/Communist group were getting pretty heated because we could not agree on Authoritarian Socialism.
    Last edited by CountArach; 05-03-2009 at 07:31.
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  7. #7
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    אני לא יודע
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    Hvil i fred HoreTore

  8. #8
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    אני לא יודע
    English only in the Backroom, please.

    This is not, as Louis would contend, cultural fascism, but because moderators can't ensure that you are following the rules.

    For example, I can try a translator which will tell me the above means "I don't know". But maybe the translator doesn't know? More to the point, why am I wasting my Sunday morning trying to figure out what you meant?

    Thank you kindly

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  9. #9

    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    I mean, some of the discussions we were having in the Socialist/Communist group were getting pretty heated because we could not agree on Authoritarian Socialism.
    I don't think they got heated (example?), and if you are reffering to my comments on imperialism being useful, I regret those.
    Last edited by lenin96; 05-03-2009 at 10:46.
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  10. #10
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    war in lalaland I like

  11. #11
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    I don't like discussing how "great my ideology is".

    I much prefer to discuss of much yours stink

    Besides, my ideology is my own. It's not shared with anyone else. It's not written down in any book, and changes almost constantly. I'm a socialist, but since socialism isn't a religion set in stone, trying to agree with others what socialism really is, is futile.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  12. #12
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Someone PM Jag. That's one team dealt with.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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  13. #13
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    Someone PM Jag. That's one team dealt with.

    And GawainOfOrkney in opposition. We could replay 2005 & 2006, LOL.
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

  14. #14
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost View Post
    English only in the Backroom, please.

    This is not, as Louis would contend, cultural fascism, but because moderators can't ensure that you are following the rules.

    For example, I can try a translator which will tell me the above means "I don't know". But maybe the translator doesn't know? More to the point, why am I wasting my Sunday morning trying to figure out what you meant?

    Thank you kindly

    oops. sorry. forgot i was typing in hebrew.
    (on an israeli forum right before i posted here. )
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  15. #15
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    I'd take either side in this debate.

    Whichever team wants me can have me.
    #Winstontoostrong
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  16. #16
    Dux Nova Scotia Member lars573's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Actually, socialism was supposed to be transitory state, because real communism was supposed to be an utopia, kinda like Star Trek 23th century earth - there's no money and there's everything in abundance. All "communist" countries thought of themselves socialist (Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) because there was still a long way to go to reach that utopia that was pure communism...
    But communism also had all that stuff about abolishing the state. Something Star Trek has in abundance.
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  17. #17
    Honorary Argentinian Senior Member Gyroball Champion, Karts Champion Caius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    I'd take either side in this debate.

    Whichever team wants me can have me.
    Follow your ideas and ideals.

    I suggest people who want to take place that join the groups that will participate.




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  18. #18
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Arguing for the capitalism side will be tougher, methinks. I'll do my best.
    #Winstontoostrong
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  19. #19
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    What exactly is the debate topic? Traditionally there is usually a proposition or statement that needs to be argued over, right?

  20. #20
    Honorary Argentinian Senior Member Gyroball Champion, Karts Champion Caius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    You won't be alone, everyone should help eachother to give the best ideas evar to make a good statement.

    What exactly is the debate topic? Traditionally there is usually a proposition or statement that needs to be argued over, right?
    There could be a question that opens the debate. Both sides give an opening statement about what is the main idea regarding the question. That is the way it could start.

    The topic should focus every aspect of the ideologies. Of course, there won't be "pure ideologies", there are different oppinions about one ideology.
    Last edited by Caius; 05-03-2009 at 19:28.




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  21. #21
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    It would be too easy and tempting to argue for communism at this point. Capitalism is getting a bad rap.

    I think it would be a challenge for me to argue the capitalism side, knowing it's pitfalls myself. However, I like a challenge!
    #Winstontoostrong
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  22. #22
    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Ok, first of all, let me just say that if there were such a debate, there would first need to be an agreement on terminology, or it would go nowhere. Second of all, it would need to be kept down to a small number of participants so as not to get too hectic and impossible to navigate or reply too. If other members wanted to make comments, they could PM participants about it. Thirdly let me say that if you are willing to wait a month or so till I am back in the states, I would be willing to participate in such a debate. In the meantime though, I think the argument should be kept out of the social groups. Sorry for taking so long Caius, I was on holiday to Pecs over the weekend. (went to some good wine tastings )
    Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.
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  23. #23
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    I'd suggest:

    Each team has a spokesperson, and each team takes turns.

    Someone should moderate it, someone who isn't very political but enjoys watching a debate and can enforce the debate rules fairly.
    #Winstontoostrong
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  24. #24
    Honorary Argentinian Senior Member Gyroball Champion, Karts Champion Caius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Each team has a spokesperson, and each team takes turns.
    I thought I said that, but I didn't express the idea well.

    Sorry for taking so long Caius
    The idea started yesterday.

    BTW, I proposed the social group ideas because there you can post and others can see it, it is way better than the PM system because if one replies and forget one, there will be a huge disorganization, and therefore, the spokesman will have to take a lot of time to get all the replies. Maybe creating other Social group?




    Names, secret names
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  25. #25

    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    we could do this over skype, and record it maybe?

  26. #26
    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Che Roriniho View Post
    we could do this over skype, and record it maybe?
    That would not reflect on the issues so much as the debater's oratory skills. It would be better to have a format where people could spend time researching and structuring their arguments and considering and debunking their opponents. It would be a lot fuller.
    Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.
    Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    In a racial conflict I'd have no problem popping off some negroes.

  27. #27
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Vuk Again View Post
    That would not reflect on the issues so much as the debater's oratory skills. It would be better to have a format where people could spend time researching and structuring their arguments and considering and debunking their opponents. It would be a lot fuller.
    No debate should ever take place outside the written form, preferably with an editor.

    TV debates are a nightmare. I'm proud to say that I haven't watched a single one of them since the early autumn of 2005.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  28. #28
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    No debate should ever take place outside the written form, preferably with an editor.

    TV debates are a nightmare. I'm proud to say that I haven't watched a single one of them since the early autumn of 2005.
    Oh heck yeah.

    A debate, if it is to contain thoughts, must be more than shouting and grandstanding and listening to oneself talk.

    Written only! It's the only way to get things done.
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  29. #29
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Someone PM Jag. That's one team dealt with.
    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan View Post
    And GawainOfOrkney in opposition. We could replay 2005 & 2006, LOL.

    HA, those were the times, me and Gawain pretty much turned every thread into a capitalism vs communism debate! :) I miss that guy, hope he is all good.

    Anyway, you would have to define what exactly the 'teams' were arguing about.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

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  30. #30
    Honorary Argentinian Senior Member Gyroball Champion, Karts Champion Caius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Capitalism vs Comunism team debate

    Anyway, you would have to define what exactly the 'teams' were arguing about.
    I'd suggest the economy and social aspects of both ideologies, but you guys can choose one also ;)




    Names, secret names
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    It's you I love

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