Several Questions.

**anubis88** · 05-08-2009, 11:17

I just found where i read it.
It's in the chapter about carthaginian elephants in the book Hannibal by Gavin De Beer.

I will try to translate the part in question:
We know that Ptolemy II gave to Carthage a lot of financial help,. We can also assume that he sent them elephants, which was possible, since rome did not yet control the seas

**Jebivjetar** · 05-08-2009, 11:29

Originally Posted by anubis88

I just found where i read it.
It's in the chapter about carthaginian elephants in the book Hannibal by Gavin De Beer.

I will try to translate the part in question:
We know that Ptolemy II gave to Carthage a lot of financial help,. We can also assume that he sent them elephants, which was possible, since rome did not yet control the seas

Well, it seems that Ptolies changed their attitude after the first punic war.

But one thing i do not understand: didn't Hannibal marched into Italy through Spain because he could not do that from the sea witch was controlled by Romans? I mean, in many books that is the main explanation why Hannibal crossed the Alps to reach Italy: sea was blocked by the Romans.

**Fluvius Camillus** · 05-08-2009, 11:35

Originally Posted by Jebivjetar

Well, it seems that Ptolies changed their attitude after the first punic war.

But one thing i do not understand: didn't Hannibal marched into Italy through Spain because he could not do that from the sea witch was controlled by Romans? I mean, in many books that is the main explanation why Hannibal crossed the Alps to reach Italy: sea was blocked by the Romans.

The battle for the sea was mainly the First Punic War, where the Cartaginians held the advantage at first, but eventually lost to the Romans.

The Second Punic War is with Hannibal, Hannibal was the governer of the Carthaginian posessions in Iberia. Also he was able to recruit local Celtic troops into his army on the way to Italy. If I remember correctly, a large fleet with a large army was being sent to Iberia by Rome, by going overland he evaded that army.

~Fluvius

**anubis88** · 05-08-2009, 11:47

Yeah but guys, Ptolemy II Philadelphos ruled during the first punic war. Even though the book is about Hannibal, it gives an overview of carthage as a whole.
@ jebivjetar and fluvius: yes, but during the first punic war it was still carthage who controled the seas for the most part.

So the book says that carthage received money in the 1st punic war

**Jebivjetar** · 05-08-2009, 11:52

Originally Posted by anubis88

Yeah but guys, Ptolemy II Philadelphos ruled during the first punic war. Even though the book is about Hannibal, it gives an overview of carthage as a whole.
@ jebivjetar and fluvius: yes, but during the first punic war it was still carthage who controled the seas for the most part.

So the book says that carthage received money in the 1st punic war

Oh, now i understand: it was the first, not the second punic war then...

**Jebivjetar** · 05-08-2009, 11:50

Originally Posted by Fluvius Camillus

The battle for the sea was mainly the First Punic War, where the Cartaginians held the advantage at first, but eventually lost to the Romans.

The Second Punic War is with Hannibal, Hannibal was the governer of the Carthaginian posessions in Iberia. Also he was able to recruit local Celtic troops into his army on the way to Italy. If I remember correctly, a large fleet with a large army was being sent to Iberia by Rome, by going overland he evaded that army.

~Fluvius

Yes, this are facts. No problem about it.

In my post i was replying to Anubis: he read that Ptolies were able to send some elephants to Carthage via sea in the second punic war , whitch was possible because the Romans in that time didn't control the sea. I found that contradictory with what i have read: that Hannibal went from Spain not because there was his major recruitment pool, but because he couldnt invade Italy via sea witch was under control of the Romans. Thats why im

**anubis88** · 05-08-2009, 11:53

Originally Posted by Jebivjetar

Yes, this are facts. No problem about it.

In my post i was replying to Anubis: he read that Ptolies were able to send some elephants to Carthage via sea in the second punic war , whitch was possible because the Romans in that time didn't control the sea. I found that contradictory with what i have read: that Hannibal went from Spain not because there was his major recruitment pool, but because he couldnt invade Italy via sea witch was under control of the Romans. Thats why im

I said Ptolemy II send the elephants... He died in 246BC.
I thought i was obvious, didn't mean to confuse anyone

**Jebivjetar** · 05-08-2009, 12:00

Originally Posted by anubis88

I said Ptolemy II send the elephants... He died in 264BC.
I thought i was obvious, didn't mean to confuse anyone

Yes, i missed that ..

So, is it correct to conclude this:

Prolemey II did help Carthage in the start of the 1. punic war. After some time, Roman diplomacy made him to change his mind, so he refused to give loan/credit to Chartage (2000 talents, as i read in my book) when war was about to end?

**anubis88** · 05-08-2009, 12:12

Originally Posted by Jebivjetar

Yes, i missed that ..

So, is it correct to conclude this:

Prolemey II did help Carthage in the start of the 1. punic war. After some time, Roman diplomacy made him to change his mind, so he refused to give loan/credit to Chartage (2000 talents, as i read in my book) when war was about to end?

It would seem that way. Of course if both of our books have the correct information. Which book did you read?

P.S. Sorry i made i typo. It was 246 bc not 264. my bad