Rubicon [Concluded]

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

*Smacks, hard*

I am a former Consul, get it through your head! Read again! I made it clear! How much thicker can you be?

You did not state that you were a former consul, Bibulus, you claimed to be consul. More than this you claim to be safe from night attacks. The only way of ending your perfidy is through a legally garnered proscription. Your reasons for lying are besides the point, you have been caught and should suffer the consequences. Power roles mean Consuls and Praetors, not venerable and delusional consulars.

And to use the excuse if I was dictatorial I wouldn't be that stupid is a poor effort. It is essentially meaningless. Maybe you deliberately did it in order to use that line.

Based on the facts as they are, my vote remains.

[Iskander 3.1]

Which was your role? Insane Senator Andres?

I'd like to point out that Iskander didn't respond to my vote. I wonder why he is afraid of saying us something important.

Actually I did. https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=772



Alright, after reading everyone's postings, I'm going to go with Kill: LittleGrizzly. The PMs posted by Sasaki are too suspicious to be ignored.

[Iskander 3.1]

And there I go again. Re-re-re-reading everything I happen to notice that LG hasn't been active in several days, which may explain why he hasn't responded to Sasaki or defended himself here. YLC, on the other hand, seems much likelier to be in bed with the mafia, and I now believe him to be helping Pompey with a mafia victory. Remember that this is a very unique mafia game, and that non-mafia members can aid in a mafia victory.

Unvote: LittleGrizzly; Vote: YLC Shoulda gone with my first instinct.

[Ignoramus]

I'm unsure on YLC. At least he's appearing to defend himself.

I'm much more worried by lurkers, who tend to get under the radar.

Therefore:

Vote: Little Grizzly

[Beefy187]

Vote: LittleGrizzly

For now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

vote: Caius

[Captain Blackadder]

Fellow Senators we must today vote for the Senator known as VOTE LITTLEGRIZZLY he has being caught out in a lie and it is quite simple those who lie normally have somthing to hid I suspect he is that curr Pompey the so called great.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

I'd recommend that senators start making use of their animus, rather than relying on their hearing. Clearly none among you are actually looking at the evidence in front of you. LG has not been caught in a lie, he merely has not responded to Sasaki's pressure on him. But, and this Senators is the important part, he has not been present in the Curia since the exchange of letters with Sasaki took place. He has not had a chance to defend himself. If the Senate proscribes him here today you will make a mockery of Roman Justice, once revered as the finest in the world. The Mob itself could do a better job running the courts.

The only Senator here today who has been caught in a lie is M. Calpurnius Bibulus (YLC). He has claimed to be consul on a number of occasions, only backtracking when I, a humble ex-tribune called him out, with irrefutable evidence. That such a man would try to deceive you smacks to me of betrayal. Marcus Calpurnius has abandoned the Senate to more adamently oppose his bitter rival Caesar, by aiding the machinations of Gnaeus Pompeius, no Magnus is he!!!

Senators I beseech you, do not let this treachery pass uncensured. Proscript Bibulus before he crowns Pompeius Rex over our broken bodies...

[Askthepizzaguy]

No! I want Caius dead now!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'd recommend that senators start making use of their animus, rather than relying on their hearing. Clearly none among you are actually looking at the evidence in front of you. LG has not been caught in a lie, he merely has not responded to Sasaki's pressure on him. But, and this Senators is the important part, he has not been present in the Curia since the exchange of letters with Sasaki took place. He has not had a chance to defend himself.

What makes you say that? One can be present and not speak. And he has been caught in a lie--read the accusation again.

The only Senator here today who has been caught in a lie is M. Calpurnius Bibulus (YLC). He has claimed to be consul on a number of occasions, only backtracking when I, a humble ex-tribune called him out, with irrefutable evidence. That such a man would try to deceive you smacks to me of betrayal. Marcus Calpurnius has abandoned the Senate to more adamently oppose his bitter rival Caesar, by aiding the machinations of Gnaeus Pompeius, no Magnus is he!!!

Senators I beseech you, do not let this treachery pass uncensured. Proscript Bibulus before he crowns Pompeius Rex over our broken bodies...

I feel you forget godfather III too quickly.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

What makes you say that? One can be present and not speak. And he has been caught in a lie--read the accusation again.



I feel you forget godfather III too quickly.

I would suggest Senator, that while one may be present in the Curia and not speak it is much harder to acheive in the entire area of the Forum. Furthermore while respect that you have made an accusation against LG, I do not recall seeing conslusive proof of his falsity, merely that he has, thus far failed to deliver any proof of his innocence, but perhaps you are correct, I shall read your claims again...

Edit: I don't see anything damning in them. A lot that is suspicious and needs to be corrected but not enough to condemn a man in his absence. Allied to the fact that YLC has made a similar claim, and been conclusively proven false, I would suggest striking down the viper in our midst rather than guarding against one which may not appear for some time.

[ULC]

I'd recommend that senators start making use of their animus, rather than relying on their hearing. Clearly none among you are actually looking at the evidence in front of you. LG has not been caught in a lie, he merely has not responded to Sasaki's pressure on him. But, and this Senators is the important part, he has not been present in the Curia since the exchange of letters with Sasaki took place. He has not had a chance to defend himself. If the Senate proscribes him here today you will make a mockery of Roman Justice, once revered as the finest in the world. The Mob itself could do a better job running the courts.

The only Senator here today who has been caught in a lie is M. Calpurnius Bibulus (YLC). He has claimed to be consul on a number of occasions, only backtracking when I, a humble ex-tribune called him out, with irrefutable evidence. That such a man would try to deceive you smacks to me of betrayal. Marcus Calpurnius has abandoned the Senate to more adamantly oppose his bitter rival Caesar, by aiding the machinations of Gnaeus Pompeius, no Magnus is he!!!

Senators I beseech you, do not let this treachery pass uncensured. Proscript Bibulus before he crowns Pompeius Rex over our broken bodies...

Your hilarious - when this is all said and done, I'll crown you rex follis, and we can even make the position compulsory for the rest of your family should they ever enter politics as well.

I've abandoned nothing, not even my senses, which you seem fit to cast to the wind in an ill gotten rage filled tempest of fear, which bespeaks of the tactics of those who would support a Tyranny.

[Captain Blackadder]

I too am a former tribune and I say the Grizzly is the one caught in the lie he says he was protecting others yet there are not enough of us noble senators to protect more then one person and that person has being protected the past few nights from attack, What he is claiming is an impossabilty unless he is working with Pompey to bring down the Republic.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

I too am a former tribune and I say the Grizzly is the one caught in the lie he says he was protecting others yet there are not enough of us noble senators to protect more then one person and that person has being protected the past few nights from attack, What he is claiming is an impossabilty unless he is working with Pompey to bring down the Republic.

NB: LG claims he was protected, not that he was protecting others. Lo and behold he survived assassination. Now this may not be an impossibility, wasn't venerable, delusional Bibulus claiming a similar ability earlier today?

I cannot remember for the life of me, wait a moment while I check the records.

Think of me as a double, a stand in - a normal senator who can survive a night attack, thanks to the fact as a former Consul, I was able to accumulate enough wealth to have a fortress like villa.

Well what have we here? A piece of evidence which can apply to both of our prospective proscriptees? I would not have been able to wish for a greater boost to my case. Allow me to spell it out for you Senators.

If Bibulus claims that he could survive a night attack as a Senator, not a Consul or Dictator, and he is believed, then LG could have a similar power.

If this is indeed true then this ends the ambiguity, as LG is more likely to have been telling the truth, strengthening the case for his defence.

Bibulus has been caught claiming to be a Consul, there is nothing in LG and Sasaki's correspondence to suggest that LG made a similar claim. Indeed he says specifically that he will not give Sasaki a Consul PM.

It seems obvious Senators that the stronger case is against Bibulus. LG can answer for his ambiguity at a later date upon his return to the Curia. Remove the pernicious thorn in our collective side, the traitor to the Republic that is Bibulus today!!!

[ULC]

NB: LG claims he was protected, not that he was protecting others. Lo and behold he survived assassination. Now this may not be an impossibility, wasn't venerable, delusional Bibulus claiming a similar ability earlier today?

I cannot remember for the life of me, wait a moment while I check the records....

I'm older then you yet senility grips you even now? The whole argument currently has been whether or not I could infact protect myself! I can! I did! But I never once, ever, claimed to anyone here, that I had lictors under my command - this was something everyone else inferred for themselves.

Khaan has the exact same ability if I am not mistaken.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

I'm older then you yet senility grips you even now? The whole argument currently has been whether or not I could infact protect myself! I can! I did! But I never once, ever, claimed to anyone here, that I had lictors under my command - this was something everyone else inferred for themselves.

Khaan has the exact same ability if I am not mistaken.

I believe that the following evidence will spek for itself...

It is too - since I no longer have any stake in it, I am Consul Marcus Calpurnius Bibulus, ... Considering the Consul PM has not been revealed, I will not post mine, however, you may have everything other then that.

Two claims to be Consul, and thus to command lictors. Then this...

YLC, if the ability of a Consul is known, why abstain from including it in your reveal?

I simply do not understand.

A valid question. To which the senile Bibulus replies;

The wording and specific details of it's function are not. I have no urge to let other mafioso forge and then create a mock setup to parade around as a fake Consul.

With yet another claim to be Consul.

I feel sympathy for Bibulus' clientele having to follow and protect the last senile, obstinate fool of a dying breed. My apologies, Marcus Calpurnius, I never expressed my sorrow at the death of your sons in Egypt. Now I am doubly concerned for it has driven you mad with grief and straight into the welcoming arms of Pompeius. It is a great shame for such a noble family to be extinguished in such disgrace...

[Ignoramus]

I feel that we're barking up the wrong tree here. everyone's lurking is very suspicious to me. He's not voted for the past two rounds, and he's clearly receiving protection from someone. I sniff a major role. I'm voting for him to try and get him to post here more.

Unvote: LittleGrizzly
Vote: everyone

[Andres]

The fact he may be lying does not make him guilty and he did have protection last night. Do not jump to a hasty judgments.

Yes, but if he isn't a pro-town consul or praetor, then he's most likely mafia. We already have 4 pro-town protectors, more would be unbalanced. And it makes perfect sense for a mafioso to be able to defend himself from a night attack.

YLC's claim seems to have been made out of boredom more than having a specific motive behind it.

LG, however was lying for more sinister reasons. And is avoiding responding here.

So, you disregard the fact that YLC lied? Why do you want LG dead so bad? Because he didn't want to give you his role pm immediately and has gone quiet for a while now? That vs. YLC who has been caught in several lies, including a fake pm + an all too suspicious slip of the tongue.

Your behaviour is weird.

You can vig YLC if you want to. "we don't need him around" isn't a reason for lynch.

You can vig kill LittleGrizzly if you want to. The case against YLC is stronger. I find it highly suspicious that you are blatantly ignoring his lies and that you present it all as harmless and not particularly scummy.

Why are you so keen at keeping YLC alive?

FoS: Beefy and Captain Blackadder for jumping in quickly and voting LG without much reasons. Sounds like they were ordered to vote as such.

[ULC]

I believe that the following evidence will speak for itself...




Two claims to be Consul, and thus to command lictors. Then this...



A valid question. To which the senile Bibulus replies;



With yet another claim to be Consul.

I feel sympathy for Bibulus' clientele having to follow and protect the last senile, obstinate fool of a dying breed. My apologies, Marcus Calpurnius, I never expressed my sorrow at the death of your sons in Egypt. Now I am doubly concerned for it has driven you mad with grief and straight into the welcoming arms of Pompeius. It is a great shame for such a noble family to be extinguished in such disgrace...

I am a consul, a former one. The whole concept was to attract the tyrants attention and focus in on me as a possible threat. This was an attempt to reduce the number of those murdered at night.

Thank you for utterly disarming me - since my use has been used up, I'm just another warm body all of you in your paranoia will proscript me. You have fallen for the first trick of the tyrant, and that is to become afraid and lose a level head. Giving into fear means giving up power over yourself and letting another pick up that power, and use it to control you.

Now that the plan has fallen through, what have I to loose? The senate holds no faith in me now, even if my deception was in it's favor, and like the greeks of old, are more willing to murder then sing praise for their heroes.

[Andres]

I was stating that it would take two nights (hence two night kills) to kill him, since he wold be protected in the first instance and vulnerable in the second - thus 2 kills are wasted on a target that was significantly less important.

If that is so, then you stated it rather ambiguous.

Also, even taken in your context, I, nor would anyone else, need insider information. The death of GH was proof of that, where the first attack failed yet the second attack during the same night succeeded upon his person.

I reread GH's death scene. It's not obvious to me that there were two attacks that same night. How did you come to that conclusion

[ULC]

If that is so, then you stated it rather ambiguous.



I reread GH's death scene. It's not obvious to me that there were two attacks that same night. How did you come to that conclusion

So an attack was not initially able to penetrate but somehow lingered along and surprised him? Are you even pushing the idea that night attacks now function that same way as the Spanish Inquisition?

For clarity

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

…

“Sir, there are armed men outside the main gate!” The servant was wide-eyed and sweating when he finally reached GeneralHankerchief. The increased commotion from the main gate had been growing for some time, but he had tried to ignore it. Despite all his suspicions and all his precautions, after the woman arrived he had truly begun to believe this would be a pleasant evening. She was not beautiful, per se, but there was something incredibly charming and sexy about her. She was not shy, that was for sure. GeneralHankerchief was still (relatively) sober, but it was apparent he would not remain that way for much longer. He kept making a mental note to pace himself, lest the ability fade, even while the desire grew.

A loud shout broke his increasingly inebriated thoughts; something really was going on at the main gate. He looked at the servant. “WELL? In the name of Juno, what is it man?!”

The servant swallowed, “They stand in the night with torches blazing, not attempting to hide from us. They have been there for some minutes now, and have not uttered a single word, even though we’ve asked their business several times and ordered them to disperse.” His eyes strayed over to the woman before springing back to look at GeneralHankerchief. “They are all holding gladii, sir.”

GeneralHankerchief looked over at the woman for a moment, and heaved a heavy sigh. He put down his wine goblet and stood, strapping on the blade that he had wisely kept nearby, even after she had arrived. “Tell the men to stay on guard, do not leave the villa, and do not unlock any door or window. No one is to enter this house until sunrise, no matter who it is!” The servant spun on his heels and ran off to report to the rest of the guards holding the front gate.

GeneralHankerchief turned and looked at his guest. “I apologize, but this is not a matter I can ignore, even for one such as you. Please,” he gestured to a servant at the back of the courtyard, “he will show you to the side door, you may leave from there. It is no longer safe for you here.”

…

…

They had locked themselves inside the secured storeroom, comfortable letting the guards deal with the men at the main gate. GeneralHankerchief was irked, but not incredibly worried. He was in a secure, heavily guarded villa, locked in the most secure room, and he had an armed guard at his side. Together, they sat in silence, listening to the cries of battle coming from outside.

Suddenly, the guard slapped his hand to his eye and began to rub furiously. The man’s tunic was spattered with dust. GeneralHankerchief looked up and saw a trail of fine debris falling from the ceiling. He opened his mouth to give a warning, but there was no need. The sound of breaking roofing tiles was loud enough for all to hear. The guard was still struggling to regain his vision when several men jumped through the holes, each of them clutching a gladius. The first one down drove his deep into the guard’s neck, nearly severing his head. The others moved on GeneralHankerchief.

An increase in noise from outside the room told GeneralHankerchief that the front was now being assaulted as well. His guards were distracted, they would not reach him in time. He swung his blade at the nearest foes and cursed them all as loud as he could, but there were too many men, and they were between him and the door. There was no escape. GeneralHankerchief screamed a curse and the men and charged. He died fighting.

…

It's bludgeoningly obvious there were two separate attacks, not one that was "almost successful but regrouped and then outwitted game mechanics and the host"

[Andres]

It's not "bludgeoningly obvious".

In the first scene, there's an attack on GH's villa and he sends the woman away. In the next scene, he's hiding and attackers get near him.

Nowhere is it written that the attackers on the roof are not part of the group attacking in the first scene. It's at least ambiguous.

Sorry, but I can't shake off the feeling that you said too much with too much certainty of it being so because you're in the informed minority aka mafia.

[everyone]

huzzah! I have no idea why I'm being investigated, or what exactly is happening to me. but the section in the write up regarding 'everyone' is rather interesting.

I initially wanted to wait and see who to vote to proscript. but currently my suspect list isn't much, only filled with people on the same townie side as I am. And I should have probably lurked a while more to see who votes me, so that I can suspect more people and have more options to vote.

but for now,
vote: littlegrizzly

[TinCow]

Tally as of post 923

LittleGrizzly: 7 (Sasaki, 'khaan, YLC, Marshal Murat, Beefy187, Captain Blackadder, everyone)
YLC: 3 (GSC, Tratorix, Iskander)
Caius: 1 (ATPG)
everyone: 1 (Ignoramus)

Abstain: 2 (split, Chaotix)

[Khazaar]

Lynching someone that does not answer accusations and might be lurking can´t hurt. There are a few good other cases out there but Vote: LG for now.

[LittleGrizzly]

Firstly i aint no damned dirty luker!

I was AFK for several days....

If you are simply voting for me based off sasaki's order then hold off i have returned and am working something out with him...

I am the Consul, i have lied about nothing, i was protected, and was taking part in protection, by ordering my gaurds to protect me that is my night action, so i wan't lieing when i said i was protecting...

and seen as my men were protecting me i was protected...

So there have been no lies on my part!

You just wish to kill a consul who wishes to work for the good of the republic!!

I am willing to communicate some of my consul pm to sasaki (not half of it) so call yours dogs off sasaki... unless you do wish to kill a useful pro town role!!

If the other consul himself wishes to confirm my identity he can give me the beginning of a sentence and i shall give him the end of that sentence... for a few sentnces if nessecary...

Vote YLC

Purely to save myself....

[Greyblades]

Vote: YLC
YLC's case is that he lied and appears to still be lying, whereas LG was simply absent. Doesnt take a genius to figure that out.

[Splitpersonality]

Unvote: Abstain, Vote: YLC, I do not believe LG is a good choice, I am sorry sasaki, but I must disagree.


(As of post 928)
Tally:
LittleGrizzly: 8 (Sasaki, 'khaan, YLC, Marshal Murat, Beefy187, Captain Blackadder, everyone, Khazaar)
YLC: 6 (GSC, Tratorix, Iskander, Split, LG, Greyblades)
Caius: 1 (ATPG)
everyone: 1 (Ignoramus)

Abstain: 1 (Chaotix)

[LittleGrizzly]

Those who are voting off sasaki's orders....

He did contact me and i didn't return conact for a day or two as i had a busy weekend (bank holiday and everything) but now i have started contact up again and im sure i can prove him that i am the consul through parts of my pm... so if you are simply listening to sasaki's orders please remove your vote... i am sure i can convince sasaki of my innocence but this round there is no time for you to wait on sasaki's orders! remove your vote now!

If for some reason i cant convince sasaki, it isn't exactly a terrible loss for you not lynching me now... as you could simply lynch me next round instead...

[Andres]

You don't exactly need to convince Sasaki. He's just one player with one vote. Just convince your fellow townies.

Besides, I for one think Sasaki's behaviour is rather suspicious.

I'd advice town to cut the strings and put some pressure on the puppet master himself next round.