Here's to 30 years of greed!
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
Here's to 30 years of greed!
Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
Thatcher was a product of the times. Her 'ideology' was non-existant. She largely just continued the monetarist policies imposed on Britain by the IMF in 1976. The ephemera of her ideology masked choices based on what she liked and who her friends were. What she said and what she did were usually completely divorced - "roll back the frontiers of the state", "reduce public spending" actually translated into the biggest increases of public spending and massive increases in state power and scope.
Privatisation of national industry was chanced upon. Her government needed to raise money quickly so decided to sell off govt assets. They were as suprised as anyone as to the popularity of the move - and retrospectively turned it into ideology.
The poll tax was chanced upon at random too. The civil service presented a range of options to replace rates. Almost as a joke the poll tax was tacked onto the presentation.
Her husband and her husband's circle all become multi-millionaires under her govt.
Like all British rightwingers - she held at her heart a contradiction. That people should be at liberty only to do the sorts of things she herself would do.
Last edited by Idaho; 05-06-2009 at 12:04.
"The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
got some figures to back that up boyo?
how very divorced from reality.
Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
Mind your manners small fry. It's common knowledge to anyone with a basic grounding in economics and history.
http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/tax-an...2012861/print/
"The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
it doesn't matter how much you spend per-se, what matter is what proportion of GDP the Gov't elects to fritter away on public spending.
in 1997 public spending represented about 37% of GDP
in 2008 public spending represented about 43% of GDP
in 1979 i am willing to bet that it was closer to 43% than 37%
from your link:
http://ukpublicspending.co.uk/downch...ent%20of%20GDP
Last edited by Furunculus; 05-07-2009 at 14:10.
Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
after thirty years of slovenly and unnecessary decline it was a breath of fresh air!
Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
Greed > Imperial Decline
Right...
Not sure I follow?
Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
I don't think you really appreciate the scale of the damage that was done by britain's retarded little flirtation with a centralised command economy.
the difference is obvious enough if you compare Britain in the mid seventies to britain in the mid nineties.
Last edited by Furunculus; 05-06-2009 at 14:59.
Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
Hear Hear! The thing is with Thatcher, is she and Reagan decided that Trickle-down economics actually worked, somehow. They are, what we call in conversation, idiots.
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
No doubt that is considered spirited debate in those circles.
Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
Down with dried flowers!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
This is the one that beat the hell out of Argentina for those islands with all the seals on them right?
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
Yes. Penguins though, not seals.
There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”
To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.
"The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
And yet Britain became so much wealthier, including a vast number of the working-class who became middle-class as a result of her policies............
Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
Yeh, and so many Ghettoised poor people. It's because of her stupid, stupid idea of selling council houses that we have such a problem with crime culture. The better off poor buyedd up houses on the better estates, forcing all the really poor together, which as history tells us time and time again, IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. Mmmkay?
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
Tish.
There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”
To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.
"The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
So, are you saying that the larger estates somehow worked?
The policy that council houses could be continued down the generations was a good idea?
Placing all poor together might not be a great idea. So, what is a good idea? Placed in an area, prices drop as it is less desirable.
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
Yeh, they did work. You got assigned a house (obviously you paid for it, but it wasn't yours) that suited your needs, and you lived there. You were surrounded by people who were of a wide range of social standing (within lmits, obviously.). House prices had jack all to do with it, as there weren't houses to buy on the estates. Only when her Margesty came along and decided it would be a good idea to start flogging them off did the faecal matter hit the rotational cooling device. This happened because, as I said, the richer tennents obviously bought the houses on the nicest estates, leaving the poor with the shoddy ones, leading too... you guessed it: GHETTOS.So, are you saying that the larger estates somehow worked?
The policy that council houses could be continued down the generations was a good idea?
Placing all poor together might not be a great idea. So, what is a good idea? Placed in an area, prices drop as it is less desirable.
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
'Tis true, and a widely accepted fact as well. Mrs. Thatcher did not know the meaning of social responsibility. Next time someone feels like arguing about the problems of benefit culture, remember the woman you have to thank.
I'm glad you got out IA, but you were one of a small majority. The fact is that when the better off tenants left then the social problems shot up on the estates, leading to much greater inequality.
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
So, a large ghetto with lots of people in it became a smaller ghetto with less people in it? The really dyed in the wool ones who couldn't or wouldn't change?
Ooooh, TERRIBLE. Better yet, if all housing is owned by the state we can ensure that we all have the same... Hmm, that concept sounds somewhat familiar... You can polish a turd alll you like, it's still a turd.
I think that the social housing that is being made at the moment is far better. It mixes more than the old ones did (teachers / nurses / policemen are included), can be part bought and part rented and are often small developments.
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
Re: Margaret Thatcher: Thirty years on
It was the changes in the tax burden which lead to declining social mobility , ass evidenced by those countries that appear bottom in the survey.. Was it thatcher that achieved that, or declining educational standards since the fifties?
So you would like figures that showed growth was bigger than before she took office , then declined under her, then went into negative growth then had a short rally with the credit fuelled boom before declining again and then going back into negative growth before coming back to a figure that was on par with before she got in office ?2. Really, GDP per-capita has for the last 15 years at least been higher than france, and nominal GDP was higher despite have a smaller population which represents a big change from the seventies sick man of europe, so i'd love to see figures for that claim.
Have you ever thought of looking them up ?
Errrr...she sold the idea that the industries were getting too much subsidy which was a burden to the taxpayer , the same industries got more in subsidies after they were sold than they did before which is more of a burden to the taxpayer3. as opposed to endlessly subsiding state-owned industries....................... if there are less state owned industries are we really surprised that more private business might have got subsidies?
Selling valuable assets for a fraction of their real value is basic robbery.Its amazing how many foriegn state owned companies jumped at the chance at the British bargain basement sale.4. its called letting go of failing state owned businesses that the nation had no business owning in the first place.
Yes and you still havn't the faintest idea what you are on about.5. we differ on this, and argued it elsewhere
Errrr ...deregulation of the financial sector not at Thatchers door ?????6. most of britains internal problems stem from poor/loose banking regulation, which is not something that can be laid at thatchers door.All of Nu-labours(thatcherite) draconian laws are built on those introduced under thatcher.7. you might want to specify those, but either way i'm kind of doubtful they compare in magnitude to that accomplished by nu-labour.
Changing fundamental safeguards for the accountabilty of the government and its agencies to the people is a bloody big problem .8. does it really, and while unfortunate if true if this really among the biggest problems facing britain?
Crazy murdering dictators are crazy murdering dictators.9. crazy murdering dictators who provided vital assistance in a war we might not otherwise have won?
With her policy of screwing the islanders before the invasion.10. how did thatcher cause the falklands, really? by withdrawing the south atlantic patrol ship, or was it more because of 20 years of FCO procrastinating on the issue of talks with argentina regarding the future status of the falklands?
Yeah right12. it was a harmless statement made in private
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