Quote Originally Posted by Andres View Post
I don't keep myself busy with "what if there would be". There isn't. And bringing a dog into it, makes your argument very silly, so I don't take it serious. A dog is not a human being.




No, it is not a religious institution. There's legal marriage and there's the religious institution. Those are NOT the same, despite of how many times you claim that it is. It's not. Get over it.



Indeed, in their minds and only in their minds. They ask for unequal treatment, they have to bring good reasons. "I think it will cheapen my private, non of the state's business, religious institution" is not a justification for discriminiation.



Ah, now we're talking. That's something completely different and I do consider it an alternative solution. Get rid of mariage entirely and there can be no longer discrimination.

However, if people are going to live together, be it two or more persons, then it is desirable imo to have some form of civil union, a legal framework which the parties involved can or cannot accept, including legal consequences. If people are going to share their lives and belongings, there should be the possibility of some legal protection and/or consequences. But then again, some will say that's the same as marriage, but it's just no longer called marriage. Still, a legal framework for a long lasting relationship is reasonable and should be there, at least as an option you can chose for.



And there, I disagree again; it is wrong to mix up the legal marriage with the religious one. They are seperate. The fact that a part of the religious people fail to understand that cannot be a justification for discrimination.



The legal marriage is not a religious institution.
You're missing my point Andres. I did NOT say that they are the same institution in anything but perception. They ARE different institutions, but the legal one is a representation of the religious one. It is the legal form of a religious institution, and for that reason, I think should be gotten rid of. Marriage was a religious institution that religious people wanted represented by and protected by the state. That is what legal marriage is/was. That is why I think we can both agree that it should be gotten rid of. As I said, there should be civil unions that are in all things but name marriage, and gays should be able to have them. I think that if you are going to keep marriage, that you should still have these unions. The thing at stake here is the word, because it is take from religious doctrine. THAT is what Christians want to protect, as Jews would want to protect the word Rabbi if I wanted to legally make myself a Rabbi so that I could demand equal treatment. I am all for gays getting equal treatment, but the word marriage has religious underpinnings and it makes no sense to try to take that word from Christians and make them accept a different meaning than what God told them. That is why I say it is sillyness on both sides. Why highjack the word Marriage? It is as silly as me trying to highjack the word Rabbi. It belongs to a religion and you should let them have it. Why anger Jews for no reason by making a legal definition of their word different than their religious one? Likewise, why anger Christians by doing the same? Give gays equal treatment by all means, but there is no sense aggravating people of religious persuasion by trying to legally redefine the institutions that they think God gave them. Just call it a civil union and get rid of the legal term marriage! Don't go messing with something Christians think comes from God.