Still not happy with artillery

[Didz]

I'm still not happy with the way artillery functions in ETW.

It seems to suffer really badly from target fixation, continuing to fire at its initial target even after it has routed off the field despite having another unit right in front of it closing for the kill.

Plus I've noticed that if for some reason it loses that target e.g. it literally leaves the field, they often turn on the nearest target to them even a friendly unit standing next to them and proceed to blast the hell out of it in frustration.

They still continue firing after you have told them to stop, and in some cases I've had to order them to limber up just to get them to stop firing.

Definately, not as well programmed as the medieval artillery in MTW2.

[Slaists]

I'm still not happy with the way artillery functions in ETW.

It seems to suffer really badly from target fixation, continuing to fire at its initial target even after it has routed off the field despite having another unit right in front of it closing for the kill.

Plus I've noticed that if for some reason it loses that target e.g. it literally leaves the field, they often turn on the nearest target to them even a friendly unit standing next to them and proceed to blast the hell out of it in frustration.

They still continue firing after you have told them to stop, and in some cases I've had to order them to limber up just to get them to stop firing.

Definately, not as well programmed as the medieval artillery in MTW2.

Well, all guides recommend targeting the ground in front or behind the target unit. It's quite inefficient to ask the artillery to 'follow' a moving target. Targeting the ground (auto-fire off), they will shoot until you ask them to stop. True, they might still shoot out the last remaining loads they have in one or two of the cannons, but that does not bother me too much. At least in my battles, after the artillery reloads, they stay quiet if asked to do so.

My bigger problem is the kamikaze AI cavalry who will try to sneak to your indirect fire artillery units no matter what the odds and who is standing next to them. Seems quite unrealistic to me: sacrificing the most valuable units outright for trying to silence a cannon. Outright charge by the whole army (and THEN trying to sneak the cavalry behind) seems like a more appropriate solution to me.

Have you seen this guide: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ghlight=royal? It's a pretty good read.

[Marquis of Roland]

Cavalry starts the attack at the same time as the infantry, only they get there faster

[Didz]

Well, all guides recommend targeting the ground in front or behind the target unit. It's quite inefficient to ask the artillery to 'follow' a moving target. Targeting the ground (auto-fire off), they will shoot until you ask them to stop. True, they might still shoot out the last remaining loads they have in one or two of the cannons, but that does not bother me too much. At least in my battles, after the artillery reloads, they stay quiet if asked to do so.

I'm not actually talking about following a target, although they obviously will do that and will continue to fire at it even if the shot travels the full length of your battle line destroying half your own army in the process. I've even had a kamikaze artillery units destroy themselves by firing sideways into their own guns in an attempt to hit an enemy unit that was flanking it.

But the target fixation problem is something different. What I mean is that they keep firing on their very first (initial) choice of target regardless of everything else going on around them. That target might be 2 miles away, routing and well out of range, and they will still keep firing shot in its direct in the hope of hitting one of them even though another enemy unit is standing 50' away shooting their gunners.

Incidently, I learned the hard way never to tell the artillery where to fire or what to fire at. Once you do that they become fixated with that spot of ground, building, or whatever and just won't stop firing at it unless you tell them to limber up, press HALT 16,000 times, smack their officer round the face with a wet kipper, and piss in their beer. And even then I've unlimbered them again and seen them start bombarding next doors vegetable patch despite the fact that battle has shifted 2 miles down the road.

My bigger problem is the kamikaze AI cavalry who will try to sneak to your indirect fire artillery units no matter what the odds and who is standing next to them. Seems quite unrealistic to me: sacrificing the most valuable units outright for trying to silence a cannon. Outright charge by the whole army (and THEN trying to sneak the cavalry behind) seems like a more appropriate solution to me.

Yeah! I know what you mean its pretty lazy programming. There are some obvious pre-programmed priority targets in the AI routine where the programmers have just left things unconditional rather than include exceptions.

Another one is the obession that all artillery has with counter-battery fire. That has been carried over from MTW2, but at least in that you could get them to stop and target something else if you wanted to.

Seriously, though I've found the best solution to get the artillery to change targets is to make them do something that makes it impossible for them to keep targetting what they are currently firing at.

So, for example if they have fixated on bombarding an enemy artillery battery 2 miles away, then sometimes switching to cannister will stop them shooting at it and get them to focuss on the incoming infantry, as long as you don't switch back to roundshot.

Likewise if you have made the mistake of asking them to bombard a building then sometimes making them limber-up and unlimber again will get them to stop and focus on the enemy infantry nearby, although usually they will just go back to bombarding the building until its destroyed even though the infantry have left.

The worse thing that can happen is letting them keep firng at a target the leaves the battlefield, this seems to trigger a response which causes all the guns to turn 90 degree's and fire at the friendly unit next to them, so its best to try and stop them firing at routed units as soon as possible.

Another trick that sometimes works is to switch off 'Fire and Will' and pump the HALT button repeatedly until your sure they have stopped firing. Then if your lucky clicking 'fire at will' back on will get them to choose another target, as long as there are no enemy artillery in range.

[Marquis of Roland]

So, for example if they have fixated on bombarding an enemy artillery battery 2 miles away, then sometimes switching to cannister will stop them shooting at it and get them to focuss on the incoming infantry, as long as you don't switch back to roundshot.

I don't use cannons much, but I have a strong feeling you might blow away half of your army.

But limbering/unlimbering is the safest way to do it; it takes longer but as far as artillery mechanics go in this game up to this point, better be safe than sorry

[Forward Observer]

I love to use the big guns, but I totally agree that they are still buggy. The only improvement that I have noted that the patch took care of was the limber/unlimber bug where they simply refused to limber up when given the command.

Just today, I was putting down a rebellion in India. It was going to be a cakewalk since most of the rebels were armed citizens and the first salvo from my howitzer battery had taken out the enemy's only unit of fixed demi-cannons and also their general.

However, afterward the rebels got organized and they did mount what appeared to be real unified infantry assault. As they approached, I went to switch my flanking lighthorse 6 pounders to canister. Since I did this just before the approaching rebels were in canister range, I turned the fire at will button off thinking that I would turn it back on when the enemy got into effective range.

To my surprise, all three guns seemed to belch their canister loads sideways out of the rear of the cannon. I mean the barrels were pointed at the enemy, but the cannister sprayed sideways to the right taking out 28 of the 60 light dragoons I had protecting their right flank.

I only lost about 50 men for the whole battle, but it sure stuck in my craw that over half of them were lost due to the bugs that still plague the artillery.

Cheers

[joe4iz]

I have pretty much quit using arty unless I am defending a fort. The only ones I care to use are howitzers. Prior to that , I produce no arty at all.

[Marquis of Roland]

However, afterward the rebels got organized and at least did mount what appeared to be real unified infantry assault. As they approached, I went to switch my flanking lighthorse 6 pounders to canister. Since I did this just before the approaching rebels were in canister range, I turned the fire at will button off thinking that I would turn it back on when the enemy got into effective range.

When you unlimber you have to immediately click off fire-at-will and always direct artillery fire yourself, otherwise random bad things like canister coming out sideways will happen.

Ceasing fire requires you to click both "halt" and then limber within 1 sec.

[Slaists]

I'm not actually talking about following a target, although they obviously will do that and will continue to fire at it even if the shot travels the full length of your battle line destroying half your own army in the process. I've even had a kamikaze artillery units destroy themselves by firing sideways into their own guns in an attempt to hit an enemy unit that was flanking it.

But the target fixation problem is something different. What I mean is that they keep firing on their very first (initial) choice of target regardless of everything else going on around them. That target might be 2 miles away, routing and well out of range, and they will still keep firing shot in its direct in the hope of hitting one of them even though another enemy unit is standing 50' away shooting their gunners.

Incidently, I learned the hard way never to tell the artillery where to fire or what to fire at. Once you do that they become fixated with that spot of ground, building, or whatever and just won't stop firing at it unless you tell them to limber up, press HALT 16,000 times, smack their officer round the face with a wet kipper, and piss in their beer. And even then I've unlimbered them again and seen them start bombarding next doors vegetable patch despite the fact that battle has shifted 2 miles down the road.

Well, it seems you're talking about auto-fire of the artillery. I never use that since I lost half of my line infantry unit in the first ETW battle. I know it's tedious, but I always do tell my artillery where to shoot. On the reverse side of that token: I never have more than 2-4 pieces of artillery in my armies. 2 of those are direct fire and 2 are indirect.

As to that micro-management: never caused any real trouble along the lines of the artillery refusing to shoot or stop shooting.

By the way, the auto-fire mess you are describing is not unique to artillery. Some light infantry units (chasseur britanique in particular) continue to fire after the enemy has routed. They just empty their ammo into the blue sky. Toggling auto-fire off or pressing backspace does not stop the shooting, just moving the unit does.