How history will view us...

[Kurando]

I heard someone say the other day that historically speaking our society will primarily be viewed as "a culture of distraction and entertainment"

I found this to be quite a penitrating analysis, as well as a pirticularly valid point of view. Has anyone else here given any thought to how historians in the distant future might perceive our society as a whole?

[Kadagar_AV]

Our definition of hygiene is to have a thin layer of paper when using the hands to whipe the ass.

Our defenition of space travel is to strap a LOT of primitive explosives on someones back and hopefully getting him to the moon without him dying.

Our definition of diplomacy is to invade other nations.

Our definition of tolerance is to live strictly divided by ethnic groups, hunting homosexuals down.

Our definition of science is a strong lobby believing the world is 6000 years old.




To be quite honest, I'm not sure future historians will separate us from, say, the 17/18/1900 century...

If we are LUCKY they don't see us as medieval.

[Fragony]

We will be seen as the hight of the civilisation-process, if we are still there, we have achieved so much in so little time. We have learned how not to exploit, how not to impose, how to respect our surroundings, these are the greatest times men ever saw imho this is the true golden age.

[Hax]

We have learned how not to exploit, how not to impose, how to respect our surroundings, these are the greatest times men ever saw imho this is the true golden age.

Man, you're serious?

[Rhyfelwyr]

History won't be able to view us, since we will all be killed by global warming.

[Hax]

Let's not get too cheerful, eh Rhyf?

[Idaho]

We will be seen as the hight of the civilisation-process, if we are still there, we have achieved so much in so little time. We have learned how not to exploit, how not to impose, how to respect our surroundings, these are the greatest times men ever saw imho this is the true golden age.

Thanks Frag. You've given me a good laugh on a friday evening

[Fragony]

Man, you're serious?

Absolutely. I think this is humanity's greatest time, and I doubt we will ever surpass it. If 'we' had the means to we have now 100 years ago, other people would be so very very screwed, we have turned into concious society's. This is the pax america, and we will miss it.

Thanks Frag. You've given me a good laugh on a friday evening

100 years ago your senate recieved a letter that was written with water from the Thames, now it's safe for a swim. A soldier in Iraq is prosecuted for rape. There are overarching human rights organisations, if this isn't our greatest time, I would like to know when was. We are doing absolutely great.

[Rhyfelwyr]

To give a more serious answer, I think that we will not be one of the big era's in history that everyone studies as a turning point, or major development in human history.

The periods that everyone remembers are those of consolidation, when all the developments of the times leading up to that period eventually come to the surface, having previously laid low while they gained momentum.

For example, everyone remembers the First World War, because that is when the balance of power collapsed, having been strained by the collapse of colonialism and rising nationalism. Nobody talks much about the 50 or so years beforehand, when these issues were bubbling under the surface. They were a period of development, WWI saw the consolidation of those trends into a dramatic event.

Today, there is a lot of social change going on. Conservative values are dying, nationalism is on the decline, religious values are fading away, increasing economic interdependence is bringing the world together, at least the developed parts. We won't go down in history because nothing dramatic has happened, these are all events bubbling under the surface. What will be noted is when in x years time, we will truly indentify ourselves as 'citizens of the world', and there will be a new age of tolerance in a more politically, economically, and culturally united world. This won't be achieved through some uber world government, but by 'complex interdependence', as various non-state actors bring nations together and make the old state boundaries nearly meaningless. History will judge that period, probably favourably.

Of course, that's presuming the current trends are able to continue and reach prominence, I expect the rapture will happen before then (sorry but it had to be said).

[Kralizec]

Somewhat obviously, this period will probably be viewed as the last decades where western countries were still economically and technologically superior. I also think that people will look back at us as being rather west-centred in our thinking (how many of you follow Indian or Chinese politics for instance, versus American politics?)

Absolutely. I think this is humanity's greatest time, and I doubt we will ever surpass it. If 'we' had the means to we have now 100 years ago, other people would be so very very screwed, we have turned into concious society's. This is the pax america, and we will miss it.

Lot's to be improved, but I mostly agree. Keep in mind that 30 or 40 years ago people might have said the same thing...when the leftists were cheering for the Soviet Union and Mao Zedong and calling the west barbaric

[PBI]

We are living in an unprecedented technological golden age. For example, I consider myself immensely fortunate to have been born into one of the few periods of history to date in which contracting appendicitis at age 11 is considered a minor illness as opposed to a death sentence.

I certainly hope it is not the peak of our civilization, but I too would be interested to hear what earlier period could be described as a better time to be alive than this one.

[Fragony]

Lot's to be improved, but I mostly agree. Keep in mind that 30 or 40 years ago people might have said the same thing...when the leftists were cheering for the Soviet Union and Mao Zedong and calling the west barbaric

Just nod and hope they don't get violent when frustrated, standard policy; so easy, so hard.

[Lemur]

I think the advent of computers and the internets will be seen as a Big Deal, certainly akin to the beginning of the steam age. As for "current trends continuing," as somebody put it earlier in the thread, if there is one thing you can count on in all of history it's that nothing goes in a straight line.

Our treatment of animals on factory farms will be seen as shameful and horrifying, in much the same way that we look at children's workhouses in Victorian England as something weird and nasty.

[Samurai Waki]

We will be viewed fairly well, until the West stops dominating world politics.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Our treatment of animals on factory farms will be seen as shameful and horrifying, in much the same way that we look at children's workhouses in Victorian England as something weird and nasty.

Hmm, interesting question. Maybe the people in the future will think of our tendency to personify animals in the same way we think of the ancients personifying the wind and the sun? We'll surely know a lot more about the brain.

[CountArach]

We will be seen as the generations that failed to do what was needed to combat global warming.

We will be seen as the generations that did not learn the mistakes of war that the generations before us learned.

We will be seen as the generations who were apathetic enough to let our governments take away our rights.

We will be seen as the generations who consumed without thinking of the sustainability issues.

Etc, etc.

[Vuk]

The discussion is utterly pointless. We will be viewed in history according to how the ruling political force at the time wants us to be viewed. After we are gone, we are completely at the mercy of future politicians, intellectuals, rights groups, religious groups, etc. If they choose to, we will be angels, or if they choose to, we will be devils. Truth rarely troubles historians and to this day most of what we believe about history is a construct created by social, political, and religious victors.

[CountArach]

The discussion is utterly pointless. We will be viewed in history according to how the ruling political force at the time wants us to be viewed. After we are gone, we are completely at the mercy of future politicians, intellectuals, rights groups, religious groups, etc. If they choose to, we will be angels, or if they choose to, we will be devils. Truth rarely troubles historians and to this day most of what we believe about history is a construct created by social, political, and religious victors.

I...

I...

I...

I... think I agree with Vuk

(Except the bolded statement, to which I take great exception, being an aspiring historian...)

[Vuk]

I...

I...

I...

I... think I agree with Vuk

(Except the bolded statement, to which I take great exception, being an aspiring historian...)

lol, this is a first ladies and gentlemen.
I am an aspiring historian myself, and I certainly appreciate it when historians don't let the ruling ideology and their own political, social, and religious views dictate their work, BUT, sadly that IS what happens most times. Sure, there are a lot of good historians out there who are not perfect, but try their best. On the other hand, most historians you read try to twist history to fit their views. History should define your views, your views should not define what you publish as history. Most historians do not get that though, which is why to this day it is nearly impossible to find out the truth about so maaany things.

EDIT: and don't get the wrong idea, I don't think that historians are for the most part a bunch of clandestine, conspiring wackos. They are just people so set in their ideas that they allow themselves to reconstruct history according to those ideas. They will overanalyze something, or take something waaay out of context to make it fit their ideas. They will make wild presumptions, and some will even make things up. People are people though, and nothing about it is going to change. The only thing that we can do is try to make it better by getting better historians in the field.

[rajpoot]

History won't be able to view us, since we will all be killed by global warming.

Gloomy and grim, but nonetheless, seconded. No one's going to be around to judge us.


If anyone does survive, maybe they'll have to devote a lot more amount of time to study us and our single century than we do to study the last thousand years, since more has happened in the last hundred years than ever before.....many ideas have come and gone, many wars have been fought.....the world has changed drastically.


Far as historians are concerned, I think it's not just historians....all of us are more or less biased towards one or the other idea. It just can't be helped. No living being can be perfectly neutral about all things.

[Fragony]

oh *** can we please get back to pig-flue and credit crisis global warming is too scary **

[Vuk]

lol, to watch you guys seriously afraid and thinking that everyone will die of global warming...it is just too funny. I got a feeling that years from now you are gonna be looking back and thinking to yourself: "was I ever really that silly?" :P
It reminds me of the swine flu hysteria, only much worse.
It is not global warming you have to look out for, it is a global war and it is coming fast...too fast.

[Incongruous]

An age of ever expanding egotism and self obsession on the part of most Westerners, social history will be viewed as individuals trying to be themselves a little to hard, seriously, in my age group there is so much fakery I predict that people will soon start to collaps inwards as they try to find themselves, even more.

Just look at the sites like facebook and Myspace, so much ego you could slice it with a bread knife, heck even here on the org people are encouraged to become so self centered that they simply reply to posts with things like this or some other off the cuff crap. I am one of 'em.

I think CR had it a while ago when talking about my age group, he posted a review of some new young adult/teen film which pretty much summed up how bollocks me and my generation really are.

Meh, time to sign the grumpy old bugger out.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I second the above grumpy old bugger. I am sick of the values I've been spoon fed ever since I started secondary school, its all about furthering yourself, greed is good, me me me etc.

[Fragony]

Must be you two. Live with a smile and life smiles back. I see nothing aparently, I see no increase in egoism, quite the opposite really. Fakery, no don't see that either. The english usually don't have to fake to be annoying. Maybe I live on a tiny little island where all things are fine but I really don't understand the pessimism. These are fabulous times if you ask me, everything has improved, count your blessings.

[Incongruous]

I second the above grumpy old bugger. I am sick of the values I've been spoon fed ever since I started secondary school, its all about furthering yourself, greed is good, me me me etc.

It is not so much the greed is good part, its the general "whatever man", "be who you want to be" crap being over used in school and society. It seems to have created a generation of people whith chronically low self-esteem which leads to self obsession which leads to massive amounts of fakery and ego. Acting, is the prime game of life.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Is self-esteem really an issue with our generation (presuming you are around 19)? We are always being taught to be confident, to sell ourselves, its a dog eat dog world etc...

[Incongruous]

Is self-esteem really an issue with our generation (presuming you are around 19)? We are always being taught to be confident, to sell ourselves, its a dog eat dog world etc...

The perfect way to create someone with low self esteem, tell them how brutal and individual it all is, its helps to erect the shield of individualism, put there in order to protect whilst it isolates. I see it less as a product of greed, but agree about the me, me ,me stuff. Its all about how one can be oh so special, so exceptional, so individual. Because these things are impossible to achieve for most of us, it reall feks us up, creating all that stuff I talked about.

[Fragony]

The perfect way to create someone with low self esteem, tell them how brutal and individual it all is, its helps to erect the shield of individualism, put there in order to protect whilst it isolates.

Screw that, it's the nanny-mentality yes we can-all together! that prevents us from being individuals, we are hammered to equal size, everything must be equal, everything must be representative of society.

[PBI]

These are rich men's problems, like complaining that your garage is too small for all your sports cars or your supermodel girlfriends won't stop pestering you for sex. Deprived of actual problems like war, famine or plague to worry about our society blows real but minor problems out of all proportion, like Islamic terrorism or climate change.

Self obsession and egotism are nothing new, nor is the tendency for every generation to view itself as the pinnacle of human development and the one following it as useless layabouts who will bring about the end of civilization. It's just that it's only recently that people have had the luxury of time to notice these things without being preoccupied by their family dieing of cholera or being slaughtered by marauding armies. Personally I prefer to live in a society where everyone has enough to eat than one where we can all feel smug about our moral fiber as we starve to death.