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Thread: German Government Seeks To Ban...

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    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default German Government Seeks To Ban...

    [as if you hadn't heard that sentence enough]...paintball.

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    In response to the Winnenden school shooting in March, the German government is moving ahead with a plan to ban paintball, which politicians describe as a game that glorifies murder and teaches people to kill.

    Two months after the deadly school shooting in the southern German town of Winnenden, the German government is planning to ban paintball. The tragic March event saw a young man named Tim K. shoot 15 people before turning his gun on himself.

    According to reports in the Berliner Zeitung and Neue Osnabrücker Zeitung newspapers on Friday, games like paint ball and laser tag are to be banned in Germany in the future, and people who violate the law could be fined up to €5,000.

    "These games simulate murder," Wolfgang Bosbach, who heads the conservative Christian Democrats (CDU) in the German parliament, told the Neue Osnabrücker Zeitung. He said a deal had also been reached with German Interior Minister Wolfgang Schäuble.

    The German Paintball League claims about 1,000 people in the country are active in the sport and there are more than 200 facilities where it is played. The organization has sought for years to portray the sport as a safe one. At tournaments, players even eschew red paint because of its optical similarities to blood and the guns used in the sport are referred to as "markers."

    The head of the league said he was surprised by the plan to ban what he called a "tactical team sport." But "during an election campaign," he said, "politicians are always looking for a fall guy."

    Supporters of the ban argue that the shooting of paint cartridges at speeds of up to 60 meters per second, reduce a person's inhibition to committing real crimes. "There's a risk that these so-called games will play down the danger of violence and that it will erode barriers to committing violence," said Dieter Wiefelspütz, the domestic policy point man in parliament for the center-left Social Democrats (SPD).

    The government has been under pressure to act since the mass killings two months ago. A German Interior Ministry spokesman said Thursday that the government hoped to pass new weapons control legislation before the end of the current term. A political agreement is expected next week and legislation would have to be introduced by the end of May in order for it to be voted on in both of Germany's federal legislative chambers before the summer break in July.

    The interior minister of the eastern German state of Saxony-Anhalt, Holger Hölvelmann, welcomed the government's plans. He argued that the game was tantamount to "teaching people to kill" or "playing war." "Our society," he said, "should outlaw such cynical games that glorify violence."

    Meanwhile, Claudia Roth, the chairwoman of the Green Party, described the proposed tightening of weapons laws as a "courage-less concession to the gun lobby." Instead of banning large calibre guns in general, the coalition government has only managed to agree on a token ban on paintball." By doing so, she said, "the coalition is tightening weapons laws in areas that are the least painful to the gun lobby."

    Her party's legal affairs expert, Jerzy Montag, said that while he is no fan of such games ("Do you really need to shoot paint at other people?"), he didn't see any advantage in banning them. "The real issue is the millions of guns kept in peoples homes and at sporting clubs," he told SPIEGEL ONLINE.

    During the debate over Tim K., his passion for paintball was much-discussed. But it was soft-air guns that were found in his bedroom. They can also be used to shoot paint-filled pellets, but they are far more similar to actual weapons than paint guns.

    The debate over paintball is not new. The German company "Mydays.de," markets paintball as the "ultimate nerve game and the latest sporting trend." But again and again, paintball makes the headlines because it is played at events in Europe held by right-wing extremists or military freaks. In 2007, photos circulated of the head of Austria's right-wing FPÖ party, Heinz-Christian Strache, playing paintball in uniform with a group of right-wing extremists. Press reports spoke of Wehrmacht-like exercises, a reference to Hitler's military, but Strache played the event down, saying he had just been playing paintball.

    Konrad Freiberg, chairman of the Germany police union GdP, said he doesn't think much of banning simulated fighting games. "People may consider this type of extracurricular activity childish or dumb, but I would dare to doubt that it has any criminological connection to serious crimes," he told SPIEGEL ONLINE.

    For his part, Rainer Wendt, the head of the German Police Union (DPolG), says it would be difficult to implement the plans. "Politicians are the only people who think they can alter reality by filling up so much paper," he told SPIEGEL ONLINE. He said a ban would make no sense if it could not be enforced. "It has to be made clear to everyone that police in Germany have no time to go out chasing paintball players in forests and fields."

    Paintball fans have also up in arms over the plan. "In my opinion, it's just a fun sport that anyone can play, " said Ramona Ruth of Berlin, who opened a paintball field in the town of Angermünde just one month ago. "Twenty to 30 percent of the people who come to us are women."

    She said politicians also like to play. Recently, she claims, a group of politicians from the CDU played paintball at her facility.
    A Demi Mod at the Paradox forum summed it up quite nicely:

    Quote Originally Posted by ForzaA
    We should just ban SCHOOLS instead.

    I mean, seriously, how many school shootings do you know of that were not commited in a school?

  2. #2
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    That is just stupid.

    Shouldnt they ban the army first? they glorify killing WAY more than paintballers do.

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    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    That is just stupid.

    Shouldnt they ban the army first? they glorify killing WAY more than paintballers do.
    Airsoft guns over 0.5 Joule are de facto banned to my knowledge anyway, so it isn't that big of a leap. It is completely insane that the government can do things like this, and an even more worrying sign about the authoritarianism currently in the German government.

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    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    When reading the article, by the way, keep in mind that Germany still has conscription.

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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Where did they get such a dumb idea from, anyway? There's no shortage of control freaks who want to ban video games, but paintball

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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Yes, those 1000 active players are really significant anyway and could run amok any second.

    Playing catch and hide should be banned as well as it trains the hunter instinct in little kids and makes them more likely to become serial killers and sexual predators.

    This is some really stupid activism, perhaps to do with the upcoming elections so some politicians can claim they learned something from that tragedy and made the world a safer place.

    And as Kadagar pointed out, they should ban the army as well in that case and I can already see some politicans agreeing with that ban as well....
    Last edited by Husar; 05-09-2009 at 00:39.


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    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec View Post
    Where did they get such a dumb idea from, anyway? There's no shortage of control freaks who want to ban video games, but paintball
    Also answered at the Paradox forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patrician
    Wow, that's right out of left field. It almost seems as though some team of spin doctors sat down and mulled it over...

    Spin Dr1: 'Who can we shift the blame onto for the school shootings?'
    Spin Dr2: 'How about video games?'
    Spin Dr1: 'I don't think anyone buys that one anymore, besides too many voters play games these days. It needs to be a really niche activity that involves weapons'
    Spin Dr2: 'Conscription?'
    Spin Dr1: 'Well....maybe...no, no we'll upset the conservative crowd. Comeon we need to think.'
    Spin Dr2: 'Well, the other day I played skirmish with my cousin'
    Spin Dr1: 'Skirmish? Running around with paintballs that sort of thing?'
    Spin Dr2: 'Yeah, with guns and in army uniforms.'
    Spin Dr1: 'Hmm... I think you may be onto something there...'

  8. #8
    Formerly: SwedishFish Member KarlXII's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Is conscription a conservative thing?

    Ah well, I say we ban Cowboys and Indians, it teaches kids how to be racist and killers.
    HOW ABOUT 'DEM VIKINGS
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    This is insane. I don't need to say more.

    Quote Originally Posted by KarlXII View Post
    Is conscription a conservative thing?
    I would think of it as an Authoritarian thing, not to do with the Left or Right.
    Last edited by lenin96; 05-09-2009 at 01:39.
    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Have the strength of Arnold Schwarzenegger, the voice of Billy Mays and the ability to produce bull**** at a moments notice and you can be the leader of anything.

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    Formerly: SwedishFish Member KarlXII's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Quote Originally Posted by lenin96 View Post
    I would think of it as an Authoritarian thing, not to do with the Left or Right.
    Really. How so?
    HOW ABOUT 'DEM VIKINGS
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    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Quote Originally Posted by KarlXII View Post
    Is conscription a conservative thing?
    Well, in Germany it is a CDU thing, with the SPD playing a role in it as well. Not conservative, just part of the annoyingly authoritarian trend in government. Which has, incidentally, been going on for hundreds of years. Normally, I'm slightly ashamed to say I'd support some level of conscription, but frankly our government doesn't have the resources and it is essentially ineffective and a monetary drain that could be allocated more efficiently. This is ignoring the civil liberties argument which I have become more sensitive to in my gradual move to libertarianism since I've joined this forum.

    EDIT: It isn't a conservative thing. It isn't a left wing thing. It is a state vs. individual thing. Probably one of the few times I'm going to agree with lenin96.
    Last edited by Evil_Maniac From Mars; 05-09-2009 at 03:36.

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    Oni Member Samurai Waki's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    The funny part about this, is that there are absolutely 0 yes, 0 reported deaths attributed by Shooting someone with a Paintball. Ironically, there have been deaths caused by CO2 Tank being overly pressurized, and jetting off the nozzle, causing blunt force trauma to chest area to person holding the gun.

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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Quote Originally Posted by KarlXII View Post
    Really. How so?
    Conscription is not giving you a choice, so it's obviously not a Libertarian thing. I don't see anything to sugest that is a right-wing thing, the U.S.S.R used conscription but it was not conservative, but during Stalin's time when they used conscription (WWII) the U.S.S.R was very Authoritarian.

    And just in case you misunderstood my previous post, when I said "this is insane" I was reffering to the bannning of paintball not your post.
    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Have the strength of Arnold Schwarzenegger, the voice of Billy Mays and the ability to produce bull**** at a moments notice and you can be the leader of anything.

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    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    We should just ban SCHOOLS instead.

    I mean, seriously, how many school shootings do you know of that were not commited in a school?
    That cracked me up

    I was surprised that giving every German male the capability to handle, clean, and maintain a gun wasn't the first on the chopping block after a school shooting. School shootings on the whole are more indicative of the listlessness and purposeless lives we're living.
    Last edited by Marshal Murat; 05-09-2009 at 04:09.
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

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    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

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    Guest Aemilius Paulus's Avatar
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    Arrow Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Quote Originally Posted by lenin96 View Post
    Conscription is not giving you a choice, so it's obviously not a Libertarian thing. I don't see anything to sugest that is a right-wing thing, the U.S.S.R used conscription but it was not conservative, but during Stalin's time when they used conscription (WWII) the U.S.S.R was very Authoritarian.
    Russia still is authoritarian, and it still has the mandatory 18-year old male general conscription. Every Russian citizen goes through it. It is not draft for war, but it sure does fit the definition of conscription, even if not in the precise context you used it in.
    Last edited by Aemilius Paulus; 05-09-2009 at 04:08.

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    Honorary Argentinian Senior Member Gyroball Champion, Karts Champion Caius's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Ban conscription. End of the issue.




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    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Quote Originally Posted by Caius View Post
    Ban conscription. End of the issue.
    That doesn't really address school shootings either, at all.

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    Oni Member Samurai Waki's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Stop forcing school after 5th year to be mandatory. The people who legitimately don't want to, or shouldn't be there won't.
    Last edited by Samurai Waki; 05-09-2009 at 05:03.

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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    i hadn't heard about this, brilliant!
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

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    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    ohhh...what to say?
    Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.
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    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    When I was a boy, every one of us carried a jack knife. We played mumble ty peg when bored.

    I guess we should have been locked up as potential killers. Poor us, we wuz victims! Who knew?
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

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    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan View Post
    When I was a boy, every one of us carried a jack knife. We played mumble ty peg when bored.

    I guess we should have been locked up as potential killers. Poor us, we wuz victims! Who knew?
    Unless I knew for sure that someone was trying to kill me and they were armed themselves I would not use it in a self-defense situation (simply because it would take the fight to a lethal level), but I carry a knife with me to this day just for handy things like opening stuff. :P
    Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.
    Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    In a racial conflict I'd have no problem popping off some negroes.

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    Honorary Argentinian Senior Member Gyroball Champion, Karts Champion Caius's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars View Post
    That doesn't really address school shootings either, at all.
    It doesn't. But it helps. What else can you do? Mandatory psychological exams? Would be better. With the conscription ban.




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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Quote Originally Posted by Caius View Post
    It doesn't. But it helps. What else can you do? Mandatory psychological exams? Would be better. With the conscription ban.
    It helps? As in we can stop worrying about those 1000 registered paintballers? Really something the government should be concerned about...


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    Oni Member Samurai Waki's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Its just retarded, I mean the group that I played with (and I started out when I was 13) were very mature about Paintball. As were 99% of the groups we played against, immaturity was a swift way to get kicked out. When I lived in Boulder, CO there was a big thing about banning paintball guns because of the whole Columbine Shooting a year after I started. All of the groups got together, and went to city hall to put down physical evidence that not a single person in history has ever been killed by a paintball, and that they're are more injuries attributed to bowling per year than paintball. Needless to say, we came out smiling, but after that we took a very hard line against the newbies who thought its fun or cool to shoot up people's stuff with their guns. Its not thats its deadly, but its vandalism, and thats another way we could get them taken away.

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    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan View Post
    When I was a boy, every one of us carried a jack knife. We played mumble ty peg when bored.

    I guess we should have been locked up as potential killers. Poor us, we wuz victims! Who knew?
    Yeah, but then they had a better idea, and dey shipped youz out to da 'Nam.

    My nephew has been participating in a paint ball league, and refereeing matches for about 4 years now. guess i better keep my eye on him. To quote one of my favorite org satirists, "Bollocks".
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*

  27. #27
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Quote Originally Posted by Caius View Post
    It doesn't. But it helps. What else can you do? Mandatory psychological exams? Would be better. With the conscription ban.
    How? Most of these students haven't gone through conscription yet.

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    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    What do your fellow German's think about this Mars?

    You could just organise a march and call the government a bunch of fascists, yelling and big red letters always works, especially when it spells out FASCISTS!!!

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  29. #29
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    Quote Originally Posted by Default the Magyar View Post
    What do your fellow German's think about this Mars?
    Everyone I know who has played paintball or knows someone who has thinks the whole idea is laughable, as well as many who have neither played nor know anyone who has. We have a few who think it is acceptable, but not many. Further proving the idea that the general population thinks the ban is insane, a recent Die Welt poll showed a 7% for - 93% opposed split. I have no idea what those 7% are thinking, but I do think that the asylums need to be expanded to hold them...

    You could just organise a march and call the government a bunch of fascists, yelling and big red letters always works, especially when it spells out FASCISTS!!!
    We call some small far-right groups fascist once in a while, but I don't think we have the courage to stand up to the government like that. It is ironic, really, but from personal observation I think that we have forgotten too much from the past. After the war Germany needed a real freedom, something in the American vein, that kind of constitution. But most importantly, Germany needed an attitude change. I just hope we have it, and that it will show eventually.

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: German Government Seeks To Ban...

    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
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