Balearic Slinger Ammo (and range)

[Aemilius Paulus]

So why is it that the Balearic Slingers have 175m range and most of all, 20 bullets? All other slingers usually have 30 or 35 bullets, but the Balearics have such a low ammo supply in contrast. This fact greatly lowers their usefullness. This and their low range. Just about any archer/slinger unit has better range and ammo than the Balearics, with the only exception of Sotaroas (Celtic Archers).

So before I go and edit the EDU, can anyone please tell me why this may be historical?

[Drewski]

So why is it that the Balearic Slingers have 175m range and most of all, 20 bullets? All other slingers usually have 30 or 35 bullets, but the Balearics have such a low ammo supply in contrast. This fact greatly lowers their usefullness. This and their low range. Just about any archer/slinger unit has better range and ammo than the Balearics, with the only exception of Sotaroas (Celtic Archers).

So before I go and edit the EDU, can anyone please tell me why this may be historical?

They're actually middle of the pack for range, but the ammo is mistfying for an Elite of its type (they have one higher missile attack than Hellenic and Eastern, but less range and ammo). They also cost approx twice as much as any other slinger. I suppose they have a little better armor, and can fight a teeny tiny bit in melee.....but then if you're slingers are in melee, then you're quite probably at the desperation stage of the battle and are just about to run away en masse

[Aemilius Paulus]

I suppose they have a little better armor, and can fight a teeny tiny bit in melee.....

Qala'im Balearim? I don't think so. have you ever seen them? Nothing but cloth on. Only a small, wicker, 1-defence shield. The Rhodians are basically the only armoured slingers. A 2-defence shield and some rectangular scale/lamellar armour.

[Vasiliyi]

So why is it that the Balearic Slingers have 175m range and most of all, 20 bullets? All other slingers usually have 30 or 35 bullets, but the Balearics have such a low ammo supply in contrast. This fact greatly lowers their usefullness. This and their low range. Just about any archer/slinger unit has better range and ammo than the Balearics, with the only exception of Sotaroas (Celtic Archers).

So before I go and edit the EDU, can anyone please tell me why this may be historical?

What? I was not aware of this... I think im going to change the EDU myself.

[Geticus]

Yeah I play Celtic factions a lot and use slingers all the time in my armies, in battle I generally start out skirmishing and often hurl all my bullets before I close for melee, I find in EB 1.2 that the celtic slingers have clearly better cost effectiveness vis-a-vis belearics. Given that my Celtic slingers are levied with one or two chevrons from city structure bonuses, and therefore have almost equal attack to a belearic mercenary, there is no reason at all to buy the Belearic who is twice as expensive. In battles where I used Belearic mercs side by side with trained Celtic slingers the Celts were clearly better.

[Zing]

Any brand-new slingers are essentially useless and become increasingly usefull only after getting exp. At this point, you are looking at +6 and more atack due to exp, and one more attack with decreased range is never justified. Plus, they cost a lot and a pain to ship to/from their little island. I do not use them if I can have any other slingers or even archers, and honestly surprised when people name them "the best troop ever".

[Drewski]

Qala'im Balearim? I don't think so. have you ever seen them? Nothing but cloth on. Only a small, wicker, 1-defence shield. The Rhodians are basically the only armoured slingers. A 2-defence shield and some rectangular scale/lamellar armour.

You're right, it was their defence skill I was thinking of, which is slightly better than other slingers (9 Def). Their secondary weapon is also AP, but again the "slingers in melee??" comment applies.

I agree with your OP btw, the lack of ammo and average range just doesn't seem in any way right for a unit famed in its class.

Ah, right...just read the Unit List script. here's why it was done:

In the business of war they hurl much larger stones than do any other slingers, and with such force that the missile seems to have been shot, as it were, from a catapult

Personally, I don't think just ONE extra attack over a hellenic slinger, less range, and 2/3rds the ammo (and twice the cost) is adequate compensation, its only one chevron equiv after all. Maybe 4 or even 5 attack (against 3 now) would better reflect this [see above quote].

[Geticus]

You're right, it was their defence skill I was thinking of, which is slightly better than other slingers (9 Def). Their secondary weapon is also AP, but again the "slingers in melee??" comment applies.

I agree with your OP btw, the lack of ammo and average range just doesn't seem in any way right for a unit famed in its class.

Ah, right...just read the Unit List script. here's why it was done:

Personally, I don't think just ONE extra attack over a hellenic slinger, less range, and 2/3rds the ammo (and twice the cost) is adequate compensation, its only one chevron equiv after all. Maybe 4 or even 5 attack (against 3 now) would better reflect this [see above quote].

I agree, in view of their fame I think they should have a 4 attack; only one higher than lowly Sphendonetia? I don't think so.

[Drewski]

Just edited The EDU to give them an extra 1 attack (=4), 5 more stones (=25), range unchanged.

Sounds about right to me.....might be a reason to recruit them now...

[Cute Wolf]

well, I didn't notice that

anyway they're still better than accensi though...

but gold chevroned sphendonitai is my battle winning troops for Hellenic factions!

[athanaric]

Qala'im Balearim? I don't think so. have you ever seen them? Nothing but cloth on. Only a small, wicker, 1-defence shield. The Rhodians are basically the only armoured slingers. A 2-defence shield and some rectangular scale/lamellar armour.

Actually, the Rhodians have quilted armour, not metal. The Balearic Slingers are the only slingers with an AP melee weapon , which also has the highest lethality of all slinger melee weapons (0.11). Komatai Sphendonitai and Iaosatae have some type of short sword with 0.1 lethality, while all other slingers, even the Rhodians, have only pathetic knives. Additionally, the Qala'im Balearim have the highest morale and defence skill of all slingers. Their range is actually higher than that of most slingers. Only Eastern (185), Hellenic (185), and Rhodian (195) slingers have a higher range.

[antisocialmunky]

Chevrons don't increase missile damage. They only increase accuracy, the unit card description is incorrect. We had a discussion earlier and proved it.

[Drewski]

Chevrons don't increase missile damage. They only increase accuracy, the unit card description is incorrect. We had a discussion earlier and proved it.

That isn't really the point, they will still cause more casualties either way, so the required effect will be achieved.

[Master.Mind]

how can I edit the slingers or any other unit?

[Conan]

how can I edit the slingers or any other unit?

Here, here I second that!

How can we change the ammo amount and range?

I have no modding experiance so a detail explanation would be much appriciated thanks :-)

[Nirvanish]

If I remember correctly someone from the team explained this a long time ago. The people of the Balearic Isles were well known as slingers and often used ammo which was much larger than that used by others. Explaining the reduced range, higher attack and lower ammo count.

[athanaric]

If I remember correctly someone from the team explained this a long time ago. The people of the Balearic Isles were well known as slingers and often used ammo which was much larger than that used by others. Explaining the reduced range, higher attack and lower ammo count.

Exactly. And that's why it's a good thing to read a unit description.

[Drewski]

how can I edit the slingers or any other unit?

Here, here I second that!

How can we change the ammo amount and range?

I have no modding experiance so a detail explanation would be much appriciated thanks :-)

Open the export_descr_unit.txt file found in the location EB\sp game edu backup. ---(MAKE A COPY)

Search this file for Balearic_slinger

;373
type             iberian missile balearic slinger
dictionary       iberian_missile_balearic_slinger     ; Balearic Slinger
category         infantry
class            missile
voice_type       Medium_1
soldier          iberian_missile_balearic_slinger, 30, 0, 0.85
mount_effect     horse -2, chariot +4, elephant +1
attributes       sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, very_hardy
formation        2.8, 3.5, 3.4, 4.8, 5, square
stat_health      1, 1
stat_pri         4, 2, stone, 175, 25, missile, archery, blunt, none, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr    ap
stat_sec         8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.11
stat_sec_attr    ap
stat_pri_armour  1, 9, 1, flesh
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        1
stat_ground      0, 0, 2, -2
stat_mental      11, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 1118, 280, 63, 47, 1118
ownership        spain, egypt, slave

The above is my changed file. The stats I've highlighted are missile attack, range and ammo.

Change these as you see fit. Save file and overwrite in its original location (you did make that copy in case you mess up)

Fully compatible with all saved games.

Done.

[Duguntz]

Actually, the Rhodians have quilted armour, not metal. The Balearic Slingers are the only slingers with an AP melee weapon , which also has the highest lethality of all slinger melee weapons (0.11). Komatai Sphendonitai and Iaosatae have some type of short sword with 0.1 lethality, while all other slingers, even the Rhodians, have only pathetic knives. Additionally, the Qala'im Balearim have the highest morale and defence skill of all slingers. Their range is actually higher than that of most slingers. Only Eastern (185), Hellenic (185), and Rhodian (195) slingers have a higher range.

All this does not justify to send the crapiest of the crapiest (meaning every type of slingers, even Rhodian) to melee... look... worgozez also use AP weapons! I mean, you can find AP melee troops everywhere on the map... there can be absolutl;y nothing that justify to go to rodhe, recruit those sligners and bring 'em to fight your war in britania... I mean, they're the best of sligners, that's true... but... they're still just SLIGNERS so any other troops are actually better!

[athanaric]

All this does not justify to send the crapiest of the crapiest (meaning every type of slingers, even Rhodian) to melee... look... worgozez also use AP weapons! I mean, you can find AP melee troops everywhere on the map... there can be absolutl;y nothing that justify to go to rodhe, recruit those sligners and bring 'em to fight your war in britania... I mean, they're the best of sligners, that's true... but... they're still just SLIGNERS so any other troops are actually better!

That's true, all slingers suck in melee - at least when compared to other troops. However, there are times when you are desperate enough to have your slingers join the melee, after they're out of ammo. Or maybe they get charged by enemy cavalry, and have to fight on their own for a while before you can move in proper infantry. For these situations, the Balearic, Celtic, and Dacian slingers are decidedly better than other slingers. Rhodians, OTOH, are best for missile duels, especially against armoured cavalry.

[Rahwana]

never forget that Rhodians had sucky 0.04 lethality knive in melee