Trade, Tradepartners and Traderoutes

[Fisherking]

@ mmk

I don’t think it lacks logic, I think it is made to frustrate.

If you check your ports in GB you will find that all ports are not equal. Some are more important than others. Bristol and Greenwich are worth more than the others. There is always a port in a region worth more than the others.


There are ways around the blockades if you have more than one per region but it is drastic.

Destroy the port. (don’t do this with Greenwich, it is a higher level port that you don’t have the tech for at start.) Then the trade will switch to another. But you sure need a navy to keep that from happening.

In regions with only one port the trade will switch to a another region’s port. I would say it needs fixed but the ugly part is I think it was just made that way.

[aimlesswanderer]

I agree, it is all a bit strange, and I find the fact that none of your provinces have any trade when they share land borders to be very odd. That seems regressive, from memory STW and MTW were like that - if you killed of your trade partners you had to rely on taxes, since your people were incapable of trading internally.

[mmk]

A few additional observations and remarks:

I had 2 trade partners left, Portugal and the Ottoman empire.
Trade with them was handled via Bristol in addition I had some of my own goods shipped to Bristol, too.
Also trade income via Newcastle - also my own goods (those from my North American possessions I suppose).

So the French blockade of Bristol resulted in a loss of trade with the trade partners and my own trade goods(from the Carribean + Coast of Brazil sugar trade, I suppose). As knoddy and Fisherking stated. But and now comes the big BUT: On the campaign map Newcastle port still had the green lines - indicating that trade goods were still being handled there. Putting the cursor over the green line showed a trade value of 1080 - which should have left me with at least 1080 income from trade - BUT the trade card in the Government screen showed a ZERO trade income. All trade being blocked, absolutely no income from trade.
Now I think, that is really a bug there! Even if we assume that the game is not meant to re-direct trade to other ports of the same region it should at least take notice of still incoming trade via other ports.
If there is still trade coming in via one port (Newcastle), at least this trade value should be added to your income, no matter if another port (Bristol), handling part of your trade income is being blockaded.

[mmk]

@ mmk

If you check your ports in GB you will find that all ports are not equal. Some are more important than others. Bristol and Greenwich are worth more than the others. There is always a port in a region worth more than the others.

Hi Fisherking thanks for the advice.
Is there another way to check a ports value apart from the building card (port type and possible trade routes) and the mouse over the green lines (indicating the value and the trade partners handled via that port)?

[Hosakawa Tito]

I find it odd that when one has an unobstructed land border, no enemy countries in position to block it, one cannot trade. I don't understand if it's just not working right or a feature. As Great Britain I hold Florida, Georgia, Kentucky and am on very friendly terms with the Iroquois, but can't trade with them. The 13 Colonies are still my protectorate till I take Quebec from the French. I can establish overseas trade with other nations, but not my neighbor.

Does a land-based trade route still have to go through a port?

[Fisherking]

I find it odd that when one has an unobstructed land border, no enemy countries in position to block it, one cannot trade. I don't understand if it's just not working right or a feature. As Great Britain I hold Florida, Georgia, Kentucky and am on very friendly terms with the Iroquois, but can't trade with them. The 13 Colonies are still my protectorate till I take Quebec from the French. I can establish overseas trade with other nations, but not my neighbor.

Does a land-based trade route still have to go through a port?

I believe land routes run from city to city and from port to capital.

The only tribe I have ever seen trade is the Cherokee. I don’t thing the others can…but why I don’t know.


_____________________________________________________

Also, can anyone verify that they actually get money for pirating a trade route?

I have not been able to see any result. I could be looking wrong or something but I still don’t know.

It may cut the enemy but blockades are more effective than that. It was said that you get a portion of that trade, but it was also said that the AI would know when to use retreat…

So it could be another undocumented change.

[anweRU]

@ Hosakawa Tito: GB can't trade with the NA tribes, as they do not have ports. All trade has to go back to your capital region. So you cannot trade with the NA tribes, even if you have neighboring territories. Same goes for Mysore in India.

Concerning NA trading: I have seen both the Cherokee and the Iriquios trade with each other & (before the patch) with the 13 Colonies. Post-patch, you can still trade with them as the USA in RTI Chapter 4. I don't think the others trade, as they are usually hostile to/ at war with their neighbors.

@ Fisherking: Pirating an enemy trade lane definitely brings in the moolah. I am bringing in ~ 1600 gp raiding Swedish & Prussian trade lanes with a 9-ship stack outside of London. The income shows up under "Other".

[Darth Venom]

Also, can anyone verify that they actually get money for pirating a trade route?

I have not been able to see any result. I could be looking wrong or something but I still don’t know.

Just check your "other income" figure when you pirate. Everything above 3000 is pirated income. Close/reopen the screen to update the numbers when you move your ships around.

[Fisherking]

Just check your "other income" figure when you pirate. Everything above 3000 is pirated income. Close/reopen the screen to update the numbers when you move your ships around.

Is there a particular amount you usually receive pre ship like trade or is it more random?

[mmk]

Just check your "other income" figure when you pirate. Everything above 3000 is pirated income. Close/reopen the screen to update the numbers when you move your ships around.

Hi there.

I regularly have "other income" above 3000 without pirating but when I am protector. I thought the above 3000 is the income from protectorates?

[Darth Venom]

Hi there.

I regularly have "other income" above 3000 without pirating but when I am protector. I thought the above 3000 is the income from protectorates?

I guess it's both then

Is there a particular amount you usually receive pre ship like trade or is it more random?

From my observations it seems to be a percentage of the trade amount per ship.

[LuxIrae]

Just check your "other income" figure when you pirate. Everything above 3000 is pirated income. Close/reopen the screen to update the numbers when you move your ships around.

Think this is partly true, butpretty sure that protectorate income also shows under other.

[aimlesswanderer]

When I raided the Mughals trade route with 3 separate fleets, 1 full stack, 2 ships and 1 ship something strange happened. I sent the big fleet in, and their income dropped from 2,500 to 1,000, but adding the 2 ship fleet it went up to 1,800, and adding the single ship it went to 2,000. Err, what? Very strange.

[mmk]

Something more about trade.

I just started a new Britain Campaign, same settings as above.

It is turn 2.

My trade partners are Sweden, Portugal, UP, 13Cs, France, Maratha Confed., Ottomans and Savoy.

The trade card in the main menue tells me that trade from

Sw, Port, UP, 13Cs, France

is taking place via sea routes while trade from

Maratha Confed, Ottomans and Savoy

is taking place via land routes!!!

Now how does this fit in the picture? I do not share any land borders with the three above mentioned empires.

Closer observation of the three trade ports that seem to be involved in trading shows:
Trade seems to be taking place via
Glasgow port (the box says Trade route GB = 1291)
Bristol port (GB = 738, Portugal = 1167, Maratha Confed = 788, Ottoman = 578, Savoy = 312)
Greenwich port ( GB = 1678, UP = 1049, 13Cs = 957, France = 864, Sweden = 654)

So Maratha, Ottoman and Savoy trade on the campaign map is incoming via ports, obviously - sth the trade card doesn´t seem to realize.

Now My overall trade income is given with 3317 per turn.
How does this correspond with the above given figures of trade value that is handled via my three ports???? If I add the 3 figures for GB, the result is 3707, not 3317.

And any idea why the Irish trade port (which is closer to the Americas) does not have any trade value?
All this remains a mystery to me.

[Fridgebadger]

I think the concept that trade has to come through your home capital is a reasonable one. There's nothing to say there's no trade going on over your land borders, just not trade that your government can properly tax - unless it all comes through their capital's warehouses. (I think in this period some of London's warehouses were the largest man-made buildings in the world?)

Iirc (and I probably don't), wasn't the ol'Boston tea party due to the fact that London was slapping huge tarrifs on tea, which came from India via London?

As to whether the trade ports are bugged, that's another matter entirely ;)

PS. I don't think the Irish trade port gets trade income for GB because it's not connected to London via a land route, unlike the Scottish ports. However, I don't know how this applies to say, a pan-European Prussian empire, where nearly all their ports would be connected via land... maybe it has to be in a province directly adjacent to your home province as well?

[anweRU]

PS. I don't think the Irish trade port gets trade income for GB because it's not connected to London via a land route, unlike the Scottish ports. However, I don't know how this applies to say, a pan-European Prussian empire, where nearly all their ports would be connected via land... maybe it has to be in a province directly adjacent to your home province as well?

The Irish trade ports most definitely do. If you start up the game (post-patch 1.2), you can make a total of 9 trade agreements as GB on turn 1. If the Irish trade port was not functional, it would be only 7. I know you can't see the trade route on the screen, as I've never seen a trade route appear from there pre- or post- patch, despite maxing out the trade agreements.

As long as your ports are connected (via a direct land link or "bridge"), they will be functional. However, the strategic-map displays may not always show them properly.

There is another issue that caught my attention. Fisherking is correct (in several posts in several threads) in that the game conspires to nerf trade. I am currently in 1725, and the prices for spices - and more importantly ivory have been steadily declining - despite the fact that not a single trade ship has been added to any trade spot for at least 30 turns!

Demand should be going up as the population increases, and prices go up as the supply remains constant!!!