Trade, Tradepartners and Traderoutes

[anweRU]

@ Hosakawa: Post-patch, the basic trade port can export only 30 bales worth of goods. So your port in Georgia is already occupied with its own export and the Carolina goods. You will need to upgrade the port to get more goods.

[Fisherking]

If the problems discussed so far are not enough for most of you to think this is a bit much then here is another thing for you to mull over.

As you know one port blocked at home cuts off trade. Well, one port in a theater cuts all good from that theater. So if Jamaica is blocked you stop getting furs from Rupert’s Land. Or if Cuba is blocked you loose the goods from all of the rest. India is the same.

It is much too easy to loose trade, especially when ship upkeep is too high to afford the ships you need to police anything. Once that happens you are toast anyway.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

Trade is still bugged.

1. Block one port and you blockade all trade from that theater.
2. Trade lanes that transport trade of an amount like 10,XXX, will not show the first 10 but a lower number. For example: instead of 10850 it will show 850 or 0850.
3. Some trade is traded over land even when it is impossible to have an uninterrupted connection that way. For example Ottoman Empire with Spain while there are hostile states between them and they share no common border.
4. In my Spanish campaign I was earning 49K from trade with Maratha. I could follow that trade from India to the sea lane in front of the coast of Portugal where is disappeared. Instead of landing in the port of Porto, it rematerialized in northern France, went over land to Marseilles and from there by sea to my port in southern Spain and then to Madrid .

[knoddy]

Trade is still bugged.

1. Block one port and you blockade all trade from that theater.
2. Trade lanes that transport trade of an amount like 10,XXX, will not show the first 10 but a lower number. For example: instead of 10850 it will show 850 or 0850.
3. Some trade is traded over land even when it is impossible to have an uninterrupted connection that way. For example Ottoman Empire with Spain while there are hostile states between them and they share no common border.
4. In my Spanish campaign I was earning 49K from trade with Maratha. I could follow that trade from India to the sea lane in front of the coast of Portugal where is disappeared. Instead of landing in the port of Porto, it rematerialized in northern France, went over land to Marseilles and from there by sea to my port in southern Spain and then to Madrid .

1. this sounds like a bug or a sneak thing to make it harder
2. ive never had this, in my maratha camp i had my main trade lane with like 40k on it?
3. even if your trade screen says its via land its still via sea, its only a glich in the trade screen it doesnt effect gameplay at all
4. seems completely random and never experienced anything like this O.o

[Hosakawa Tito]

I know that in my GB campaign I am not taking on Spain for Gibraltar till last because of their huge navy. I'll never be able to afford the naval police force to cover every port in North America, India, and the Channel too. Blockading a trade port should only affect the goods handled by that port, whereas raiding a major trade route should affect all the goods from that theater. I hope they decide to fix this in a future patch.

[mmk]

If the problems discussed so far are not enough for most of you to think this is a bit much then here is another thing for you to mull over.

As you know one port blocked at home cuts off trade. Well, one port in a theater cuts all good from that theater. So if Jamaica is blocked you stop getting furs from Rupert’s Land. Or if Cuba is blocked you loose the goods from all of the rest. India is the same.

It is much too easy to loose trade, especially when ship upkeep is too high to afford the ships you need to police anything. Once that happens you are toast anyway.

I fully agree.

[mmk]

Another observation: Playing as Spain I fulfilled my core mission which resulted in New Spain joining my side. I was of the opinion that this would result in a major boost of my economy (many more ports, mines and plantations). Strangely enough the addition of all these developed territoties resulted in me making less money then before New Spain joined my side.

[Slaists]

Another observation: Playing as Spain I fulfilled my core mission which resulted in New Spain joining my side. I was of the opinion that this would result in a major boost of my economy (many more ports, mines and plantations). Strangely enough the addition of all these developed territoties resulted in me making less money then before New Spain joined my side.

Probably the New Spain provinces that just joined you are underdeveloped: you need to build these provinces up to reap the $$$. Also, check those harbors: most likely they're not trade harbors but rather fishing harbors. AI loves to build them.

Also, check your trade page: it's possible some of your trade partners have their harbors blockaded by their respective enemies. It's your job to fight these scoundrels off if your trade partners are not able to.

I also have a big heartburn with the way trade works.

No matter how many ports a home region has, having one blockaded cuts all trade.

There are some other oddities with the system, like the Danes blocking all American trade via Iceland without putting fleet on the route.

Even a simpleton can see that there are other ways into a country than the one port.

Trade will not reroute to a different port however.

The fact that any Power has loads of ports and trade partners should get goods with out them being transshipped.

It is made to fail and made to keep you broke. Every change makes trade more of a problem.

Yes, that bugs me too. Under the current system, one pirate ship blockading an obscure island in the Carribean can blockade my WHOLE American trade flow, from ALL American provinces despite my all other trade routes to Europe being open. That's simply BS...

I suspect this is actually a bug.

[mmk]

Probably the New Spain provinces that just joined you are underdeveloped: you need to build these provinces up to reap the $$$. Also, check those harbors: most likely they're not trade harbors but rather fishing harbors. AI loves to build them.

Also, check your trade page: it's possible some of your trade partners have their harbors blockaded by their respective enemies. It's your job to fight these scoundrels off if your trade partners are not able to.



Yes, that bugs me too. Under the current system, one pirate ship blockading an obscure island in the Carribean can blockade my WHOLE American trade flow, from ALL American provinces despite my all other trade routes to Europe being open. That's simply BS...

I suspect this is actually a bug.

Thanks for the advice! Checking on all the trade issues lately, I became somewhat of a trade pro, so I was making very little money with New Spain fully developed and with the maximum number of trade ports operating in the region. That is why the pityful income from all those gold miney etc etc was so shocking/astonishing to me. No trade routes or ports being blocked.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

Another observation: Playing as Spain I fulfilled my core mission which resulted in New Spain joining my side. I was of the opinion that this would result in a major boost of my economy (many more ports, mines and plantations). Strangely enough the addition of all these developed territoties resulted in me making less money then before New Spain joined my side.

You were trading with New Spain. That trade was lost when they joined you. You were also receiving tribute because were their protector. Usually the lost trade is compensated by your other trade partners but since it is possible that their trade is blocked or raided your total income can be less then before. You should also be aware that since you get an extra five or six regions your tax income is reduced because your administrative cost will increase.

[mmk]

You were trading with New Spain. That trade was lost when they joined you. You were also receiving tribute because were their protector. Usually the lost trade is compensated by your other trade partners but since it is possible that their trade is blocked or raided your total income can be less then before. You should also be aware that since you get an extra five or six regions your tax income is reduced because your administrative cost will increase.

Thank you for the advice! Administrative costs? O.k. - but then the richess of the New World made Spain rich or did I get my history classes wrong here? And since New Spain joined me voluntarily, why then lose trade and not get trade in addition? All very strange. I mean of course you are perfectly right with your assumptions, but then the logic of the game is that you lose when you gain.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

Thank you for the advice! Administrative costs? O.k. - but then the richess of the New World made Spain rich or did I get my history classes wrong here? And since New Spain joined me voluntarily, why then lose trade and not get trade in addition? All very strange. I mean of course you are perfectly right with your assumptions, but then the logic of the game is that you lose when you gain.

In my Spanish campaign my income from New Spain was 2500 from trade and some 1500 from being its protector. Normally your trade is redistributed among your trade partners if you lose one. In my case I didn't lose any trade. That 1500 and the overall decrease in taxes because of admin costs, has to be compensated with the extra income from the newly acquired regions. In my campaign I had a bigger income after NS joined me. Mexico and Venezuela are very rich regions, but need some development.

[Slaists]

Thank you for the advice! Administrative costs? O.k. - but then the richess of the New World made Spain rich or did I get my history classes wrong here? And since New Spain joined me voluntarily, why then lose trade and not get trade in addition? All very strange. I mean of course you are perfectly right with your assumptions, but then the logic of the game is that you lose when you gain.

Hmm, in my experience, all New World South American provinces are worth a lot even if they produce 0 in taxes (when I exempt them from taxes) just by increasing my trade. Most of the New World provinces in South America export goods that can be sold to your trade partners. In early game, early-mid game, the trade income definitely outweighs the tax income.

Also, note that fur good tax revenue you need high town wealth. Most likely, when you took those provinces from Mexico, town wealth was nil... You can build it up by 1) investing a lot in enlightenment techs (especially the right side of them) 2) by developing your roads 3) by developing your trade harbors 4) by developing your towns and farms; better even, by doing all 4 of the listed at the same time.

In mid/late game, town wealth is the biggest contributor to my tax income.

[resonantblue]

On one blockaded port to blockade them all:

I actually like the blockade one port and it blocks all trade concept.

There's no need to micromanage blockading multiple trade ports. If an enemy can keep a naval fleet blockading a trade port in your home region they can blockade them all. It's just a question of macro vs micro and going micro offers no real benefits I can see from a gameplay or realsim perspective.

Most nations of the era kept fleets at home precisely to protect trade, or in the case of GB also prevent seaborne invasions. Let's not talk about "logic" or "realism" if you're playing GB and don't keep a Home Fleet ready to repel invasions or attempts to cut your trade. Because that's not realistic at all.

On trade with the 13 colonies:

It doesn't matter if you have overaseas territories connected to the 13 colonies. The market for everything in this era is Europe. So you still have to get the goods back to your home region, which is still blockaded.

The game mechanics are much simpler this way and are more effective at portraying the era. Major fleet actions were fought to prevent blockade for precisely this reason. It shouldn't be possible to simply destroy the blockading force of some piddly backwater port and suddenly your trade is all functioning again. Specific trade ports had massive infrastructure for loading/unloading/storage/administration/etc. If someone blockaded such a major port your trade was going to suffer big time, even if you had 100 small ports elsewhere in the country that could in theory offload goods.

So you need to protect your home region port with a fleet at all times if you don't have enough money to hold out a few turns. 1 turn is representing 6 months - that's a long time to be without any trade.