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Thread: Do you ever redo battles?

  1. #1
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Do you ever redo battles?

    Playing as the Romani, I was fighting for that city right above Carthage. I had it besieged with a full stack standard Camilliian army, and was attacked by two Carthage half stacks, one inside the city and one outside. So, when the deployment started I used my the usual manipular formation, and went to the edge of the map to get the elevation advantage. But when the battle started the enemy reinforments appeared right next to my men. I tried to run mine around, but for some reason my men abandoned the manipular formation and formed a straight line. The battle was going well, 7% of mine dead with 24% of theirs dead. Then their other half stack reached the melee, and those rubbishy Maure (sp?) skirmishers started attacked my Principes and Triarii. For whatever reason, these skirmishers were winning and routed my men. Despite routing most of their first half stack, a single mercenary unit of Pezhetaroi routed all my men over there, even with repeated Campanian cavalry charges from the rear. Then my general died figthing Maure skirmishers... just after I got the clip scene for when their 8 star general should have died... except it just showed you my man stabbing him and he ran on. So, his rubbish army refused to rout and mine chain routed. Oh yeah, and all the while I could hardly see what was going on because of a forest.

    So I'm going to redo the battle tomorrow, this is the first time I have ever did this.
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  2. #2
    Incorruptible Forest Manager Member Tristuskhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    Looks like your general deserves command of a single tiny ship to go hunting pirates for a short time...

    When your manipular formation is neat, just group the whole of it. That way you can select it all at once and, by holding right click and "rotate" cursor, you can send your army to the other side of the map in formation, arriving in good order and facing the direction you wanted.

    Back on topic, I have replayed one or two battles during Pahlava campaigns, early in the game when one battle can ruin your whole kingdom.
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    Member Member anubis88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    I used to repeat battles if i lost them, but it's much more fun if you get your ass kicked by the AI.

    P.S. The maure are excelent units, they have very high lethality... I think sth like 0.225.

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    Member Member Nachtmeister's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    It depends... On some occasions, when I get to fight 2+ battles in the AI turn, I usually re-do all of them even (and especially) after heroic victories - but if I could choose, I would rather not.
    (CTD issues. Very frustrating.)
    Otherwise - no. To me, re-loading spoils any sense of accomplishment gained from a campaign.

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  5. #5
    That's "Chopper" to you, bub. Member DaciaJC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtmeister View Post
    It depends... On some occasions, when I get to fight 2+ battles in the AI turn, I usually re-do all of them even (and especially) after heroic victories - but if I could choose, I would rather not.
    (CTD issues. Very frustrating.)
    Otherwise - no. To me, re-loading spoils any sense of accomplishment gained from a campaign.
    Have you tried this advice, Nachtmeister? I suffered from the same problem as you, but no more thanks to Theages's suggestions.

    And I completely agree with your second point. Re-doing battles after they have been genuinely lost is analogous with cheating in my view.
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  6. #6
    Loving being a Member Ghaust the Moor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    I redo battles if I lose an inportent FM. But if it was a genuine loss, I keep it. I also redo them when I try someything new and it doesn't work , or if my men are stupid *cough*Stupidcharriotersthatthinkchargingintoaunitofspearmenwithoutordersisagoodidea*Cough*





  7. #7
    Zoodling Millipede Member Ariovistus Maximus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    I have to confess I have replayed battles. I usually save b4 each battle. Also b/c EB tends to crash after nice battles. >:O

    But now I try not to replay UNLESS the OBNOXIOUS pc decides to kill of my general in some absurd manner. You notice how the AI generals are almost ALWAYS still alive when there's 10 men left, but YOU can easily lose your general the instant he touches a blasted PEASANT!!!! ERGGGG!!!!

    Then I redo battles.

    My brother (sometimes I think he suffers from OCD ) used to build assassins, make an assassination attempt, and reload OVER AND OVER until his assassin killed the guy. At like 10% odds.
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    That's "Chopper" to you, bub. Member DaciaJC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    The thing with assassins: sometimes I get into a ridiculous situation in which my assassin has the best of odds (for example, an assassin with 8 Subterfuge has a 95% chance of success against a Pontic diplomat with 3 Influence and no security-related traits) and is slain in the attempt. And he is slain in every attempt if I try to reload. It's rather irritating.
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  9. #9
    master of the wierd people Member Ibrahim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    I do when I don't get the ideal campaign prgression (I can lose battles only when I deem it perfect for AAR puposes)
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    I redo battles in case: a) CTD a1) after i win (then i reload, attack with single unit with auto_win, then disband that unit and eventually disband some other units in my army to simulate losses from previous battle), a2) after i lose: then reaload and go for autocalc. battle b) when playing difficult faction (e.g. Pahlava) where winning is a matter of surviving, and i can't afford losing.


  11. #11
    πολέμαρχος Member Apázlinemjó's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    I redo battles after CTDs only. I don't really care when the AI wins in minor battles, since I always win the crucial ones.
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  12. #12
    Member Member Macilrille's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtmeister View Post
    It depends... On some occasions, when I get to fight 2+ battles in the AI turn, I usually re-do all of them even (and especially) after heroic victories - but if I could choose, I would rather not.
    (CTD issues. Very frustrating.)
    Otherwise - no. To me, re-loading spoils any sense of accomplishment gained from a campaign.
    Theager's advice seems good. I was too lazy to do that, in enemy turn when I fight a battle, after I just press ESC then save. It causes no ill effects.



    I am with Ghaust and Ariovistus basically. Though my generals usually have high survivability. TBH and not denigating Rhyfelwyr it just sounds as if his tactics needs improvement, Clausewitz has excellent advice on being caught in such a pincer. I think I would have "eaten" that defeat if it was me, unless it was the forest that screwed it up. If it was that I probably would have reloaded. Though civilised generals could not fight effectively in forests either, think Kalkriese and Germanicus' campaign to reconquer the province...

    Dunno, if forest F-ed you; reload, if tactic F-ed you, eat it.
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  13. #13
    Member Member Nachtmeister's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontline1944 View Post
    Have you tried this advice, Nachtmeister? I suffered from the same problem as you, but no more thanks to Theages's suggestions.
    Thank you, but I am running on 32bit/2GB; I suppose I will just have to live with it until I can afford a new machine. Imagine 3x speed going down to 1FPS with two armies each composed of a halfstack advancing towards each other...

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontline1944 View Post
    The thing with assassins: sometimes I get into a ridiculous situation in which my assassin has the best of odds (for example, an assassin with 8 Subterfuge has a 95% chance of success against a Pontic diplomat with 3 Influence and no security-related traits) and is slain in the attempt. And he is slain in every attempt if I try to reload. It's rather irritating.
    Somewhere here there is a thread that goes into this with more detail. For practical advice, let it suffice to say that "chances" in RTW are not strictly what the term implies. The game has already calculated the outcome of the mission and displays the likelyhood that the result of that "die roll" was a success. It does not calculate the moment you use the assassin (or other chance-dependant agent). To change the result, you have to change something (anything) about previous actions on the campaign map, for example edit a building cue or fight a battle or move a character.
    Example: In a KH campaign's first turn, if I do the following (in the precise order given here)
    -send spy into Kydonia
    -set all Lakedaimonian forces to besiege Korinthos, leaving Sparte without a garrison
    -set all Attic forces to besiege Chalkis
    -recruit a unit of hippakontistai in Athenai
    -disband all units on Rhodos
    -build coastal clearing in Sparte
    -set taxes to high in Sparte, very high in Athenai, Rhodos
    -attack Kydonia with Areus' task force
    then the spy's mission to open the gates will invariably be a success, enabling me to take the settlement before the first AI turn even takes place. This is for medium unit size.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim View Post
    I do when I don't get the ideal campaign prgression (I can lose battles only when I deem it perfect for AAR puposes)
    Interesting. I rather re-start the whole campaign in such a case (as in "bogged-down campaign"); however I do not strive for "ideal" but rather "acceptable" campaign progression. This way, not only tactics but also strategy is learned from the experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Macilrille View Post
    Theager's advice seems good. I was too lazy to do that, in enemy turn when I fight a battle, after I just press ESC then save. It causes no ill effects.
    I will have to try that - not that I could not re-produce victories but it often takes me ~1hr to fight a single battle...

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  14. #14
    Member Member Chris1959's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    Not any more unless there is a CTD or something else stupid like when I hit the start battle button whilst I'm still deploying even if I lose a really good FM, like the other day when I lost my best Roman general after hammering Pontus and whilst pusuing routers ran into some levy hoplites and was killed, shades of Gaston de Foix.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    Never. To me, re-loading spoils any sense of accomplishment gained from a campaign as well as i believe there´s no point in wanting historical correctness if you´re going to do use the one thing there´s completely impossible to do in real life.

  16. #16
    Zoodling Millipede Member Ariovistus Maximus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Publius Aelius Hadrianus View Post
    Never. To me, re-loading spoils any sense of accomplishment gained from a campaign as well as i believe there´s no point in wanting historical correctness if you´re going to do use the one thing there´s completely impossible to do in real life.
    I suppose you could think of CTD's as a blunder by your general... or of the earth swallowing up your army.

    I always aspire to your standards, but I just can't stand the lame outcome of some battles.

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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    I only redo battles when I make some blatant tactical mistake (which doesn't happen often) or when the units don't do what they are told (mostly happens in forests or other strange terrain). If the AI beats me with numbers or by taking better position or by some maneuver that I couldn't prevent I don't redo.

  18. #18
    Member Member Macilrille's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    Nachtmeister, I run 1.1, I do not know whether it makes a difference, in 1.1 it works. There are some faction messages you do not get, but frankly that is a minor hassle only.

    Historical accuracy is impossible anyway, the mad AI makes sure of that and the engine allows it.
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  19. #19
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    The Maure skirmishers really shocked me... I think I am not understanding the unit stats properly. What is this lethality rating? Is that why spearmen seem to have such high attack?
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  20. #20
    iudex thervingiorum Member athanaric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    The Maure skirmishers really shocked me... I think I am not understanding the unit stats properly. What is this lethality rating? Is that why spearmen seem to have such high attack?
    No. Lethality means how likely a soldier is to kill an opponent with a hit. Attack, IIRC, means how likely the soldier is to hit (resulting either in knockover or death of opponent). Spearmen have only medium to low lethality (0.13 usually; 0.15 for cavalry spears and Germanic Pikemen; 0.17 for sarissa type pikes). 0.225 lethality is very high, being the standard value for longswords. Only falxes (0.26), two-handed swords (0.285) and cavalry lances (anything up to 0.44; don't confuse with cavalry spears!) have a higher lethality.
    Last edited by athanaric; 05-11-2009 at 16:59.




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  21. #21
    Barcid Member soup_alex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    No. Lethality means how likely a soldier is to kill an opponent with a hit. Attack, IIRC, means how likely the soldier is to hit (resulting either in knockover or death of opponent). Spearmen have only medium to low lethality (0.13 usually; 0.15 for cavalry spears and Germanic Pikemen; 0.17 for sarissa type pikes). 0.225 lethality is very high, being the standard value for longswords. Only falxes (0.26), two-handed swords (0.285) and cavalry lances (anything up to 0.44; don't confuse with cavalry spears!) have a higher lethality.
    As athanaric says, Rhyfelwyr: the Maure are particularly noteworthy in the African theatre for the high lethality of their swords, as most other melee weapons in use in the area (with the exception of spears and lances) are falcata-style swords which, though possessed of the ever-useful AP ability, suffer from a fairly miserable lethality rating (0.1).


    As for re-loading: yes, I have done so in the past when faced with accidents (like pressing the autoresolve button!!), artificial stupidity (trooper "disobedience") or apparently dead-cert espionage missions going tits-up, as Frontline1944 describes (SO ANNOYING). Not quite so much these days as in the past; now when things go wrong, as long as it's my own fault and not the computer's, I try to grin and bear it. Sometimes, the life of a (minor) family member is just the price one must pay for securing a settlement in the first year of a campaign.





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  22. #22

    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    You want a really, really, really stupid one?

    Last night, I had just captured Damascus, and the full stack was needed for garrison to avoid revolt. But there was a little AS stack left east of the city, so I decided to just kick them away with the main army, leaving the FM to settle into his new home, then send the Army back in the same turn..

    And I must have miss-clicked by a micro fraction, and to my horror the Army Wandered NW around the mountains, and ran out of movement points. This left Damascus on 5% happiness at low taxes (eek).

    Did I reload? No, I'd done far too much else I couldn't replicate that turn. The result? The revolt caused almost 8000 mnai damage, and killed the FM

    Didn't like him very much anyway though..

  23. #23
    Devout worshipper of Bilious Member miotas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    While the army is walking you can hit backspace to stop them moving.

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  24. #24

    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    Quote Originally Posted by miotas View Post
    While the army is walking you can hit backspace to stop them moving.
    Not if you hit the spacebar to speed up walking/animations on campaign map, they move almost instantly...

  25. #25
    Symbasileus ton Rhomaioktonon Member Maion Maroneios's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    Short answer: No. Though I used to, sometimes.

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  26. #26

    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    I do if I have to, which happens when CTD occurs. However when I get an after battle CTD I usually stop playing for that day, because it ruins all the fun. Then the next time I load the game I replay that battle.

    I do not reload on any other reason, except something which does not depend on my will (CTD, power failure, etc.)

  27. #27
    Frightens enemy infantry. Member Meothar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    Sometimes when I see that the Battlefield is full of trees or has very strange terrain. Then I attack from a different direction or not at all.

  28. #28
    Barcid Member soup_alex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drewski View Post
    And I must have miss-clicked by a micro fraction, and to my horror the Army Wandered NW around the mountains, and ran out of movement points. This left Damascus on 5% happiness at low taxes (eek).

    Did I reload? No, I'd done far too much else I couldn't replicate that turn. The result? The revolt caused almost 8000 mnai damage, and killed the FM
    Ouch :S

    Quote Originally Posted by Meothar View Post
    Sometimes when I see that the Battlefield is full of trees or has very strange terrain. Then I attack from a different direction or not at all.
    Hmm, I don't think I've ever reloaded because the game gave me durr hurr stewpurd battlefield terrain, although come to think of it, I probably should. Really, sometimes I just wish excessive grades were completely impassable, if not at least limited.
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  29. #29
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you ever redo battles?

    only after ctd... or when your first, and last (pity 1 province faction) settlements got besieged by 3 full stacks of Grey death... (Hay / Pontos only)

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