Saba in Hungary

[Aemilius Paulus]

WTH? How did that happen?? I hit Next Turn, and when I got to the next one, a Saba Army spawns all the sudden. Notice the captain's name and the units are Sweboz. The EB Team better have an answer...

[Tyrfingr]

It's called diplomats?

[Tristuskhan]

Bràndàfusàz is definitely not, technically speaking, a sabean name.

[A Very Super Market]

Diplomats cannot bribe units that the faction cannot use, either.

[Tristuskhan]

Don't know those units but I suppose Saba could train them with a local MIC.

Did anyone conquer Germania playing with Saba yet? We need advice here!

[Aemilius Paulus]

It's called diplomats?

No, I checked everywhere. First of all, there was no Eleutheroi or Sweboz army anywhere near there. Secondly, no Diplomats at all, not just Sabyn. I kill all diplomats on sight, lest they bribe my armies. It simply spawned . Although I would imagine a spawned army would at least include a Sabaen name.

Diplomats cannot bribe units that the faction cannot use, either.

False. In RTW they could not. In EB, seemingly for some reason, such thing seems to be possible, even though one would thing this is a hardcode and thus cannot be changed. I have bribed Eleutheroi before and gotten all of their units, although I would not normally be able to recruit them.

Don't know those units but I suppose Saba could train them with a local MIC.

Did anyone conquer Germania playing with Saba yet? We need advice here!

Are you kidding? First of all, do you see the extent of Saba? They are confined to their homeland territories, while Bostra, a city in the region bordering the Ptolies, revolted to Saba. The Sabyn have no holdings in Europe. Not to mention, they could not have recruited those units anyway, as those units are not in their roster. use the Recruitment Viewer, and it will say the same.

[DaciaJC]

All I can manage is a laugh.



Really, though, the one plausible explanation that I can offer is a bribe from a diplomat. The diplomat may have been approaching death, moved into Sweboz territory via an alternate path (up through AS, around the Black Sea, and through the Sauromatae), bribed an army (which may have been hidden from your view by hiding in forests, as in an ambush), and then died/bumped off by an assassin.

Do you have the option "follow AI characters" checked? That would be an easy way to verify if a diplomat was at work.

Oh, and how are the Getai treating you?

[Ghaust the Moor]

WTF. I wanna know how a diplomat does things on his own. I have to order mine around. I fail to see how he would have accidently ordered a diplomat to bribe a random army...



EDIT: ooops. My b. I thought you were playing as the saba. Sorry bout that.

[Tristuskhan]

Are you kidding? First of all, do you see the extent of Saba?

Obviously I was kidding... Calm down friend.

Not to mention, they could not have recruited those units anyway, as those units are not in their roster. use the Recruitment Viewer, and it will say the same.

If you say so... my mistake then. I wrote that their COULD train them through local MIC so they COULD maybe catch them thru bribery.

[Ariovistus Maximus]

erm... OH! oh; never mind...

psycho-glitch is all I can think of! bizarre. But then, weirder things have happened I guess. Maybe its just the banner is messed up? Maybe try attacking it and seeing what culture you end up at war with? Reload after of course.

Maybe they're aliens...

[Vasiliyi]

That is so funny, nice empire going there AP

[anubis88]

Well the Saba seem to be major bribeman. They bribed 2 of my FM in my Seleucid campaign already...

[bobbin]

Both those units are recruitable by Saba so I'm guessing frontline1944's answer is the correct/most likley one.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;32
type             germanic infantry frameharjoz
dictionary       germanic_infantry_frameharjoz      ; Dugunthiz
category         infantry
class            heavy
voice_type       General_1
soldier          germanic_infantry_dugunthiz_chattispearmen, 50, 0, 1.1
officer          ebofficer_germanic_standardbearer
mount_effect     elephant -3
attributes       sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hardy
formation        0.76, 1, 1.4, 2, 5, square
stat_health      1, 1
stat_pri         7, 8, javelin, 30, 2, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,1
stat_pri_attr    prec, thrown
stat_sec         15, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr    light_spear
stat_pri_armour  2, 12, 3, flesh
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        2
stat_ground      0, 0, 1, 0
stat_mental      11, impetuous, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 1233, 308, 81, 140, 1233
ownership        germans, romans_julii, romans_brutii, numidia, macedon, thrace, greek_cities, egypt, carthage, parthia, gauls, britons, scythia, spain, dacia, armenia, pontus, romans_scipii, seleucid, saba, slave

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;69
type             germanic cavalry ridoharjoz
dictionary       germanic_cavalry_ridoharjoz      ; Ridanz
category         cavalry
class            light
voice_type       General_1
soldier          germanic_cavalry_ridoharjoz_komataihippeis, 25, 0, 1
officer          ebofficer_germanic_standardbearer
mount            light horse
mount_effect     elephant -2, chariot +2
attributes       sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hardy, cantabrian_circle
formation        1.8, 4, 3, 6, 4, square
stat_health      1, 1
stat_pri         8, 27, javelin, 31.5, 4, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,1
stat_pri_attr    thrown
stat_sec         9, 27, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.15
stat_sec_attr    no
stat_pri_armour  4, 12, 3, flesh
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        3
stat_ground      0, 0, -2, 0
stat_mental      13, impetuous, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 2745, 686, 60, 80, 2745
ownership        germans, slave, romans_julii, saba, romans_brutii, numidia, macedon, thrace, greek_cities, egypt, carthage, romans_scipii

[Moros]

Well the Saba seem to be major bribeman. They bribed 2 of my FM in my Seleucid campaign already...

Well historically arabs did bribe quite often...

[Cyclops]

Looks like a definite case of a bribe. Both unit types can be recruited by just about every faction (incl Saba). With diplomats roaming the map and bribing one anothers stacks that might be a "vicar of Bray" army:could've started out as Sweboz, bribed in turn by Averni, Romani, Karthadastim, Ptollie and then Saba...or not.

As for this business of being able to bribe units you can't recruit, I'm yet to see it. I tried to bribe a unit of Irish heavies that spawned as brigands in Kruddain in my current Casse campaign but they would not join me. Dammit.

(edit) actually come to think of it I didn't have enough money so i terminated them. Maybe I'll save up in case another one appears...heh heh heh...

[Cute Wolf]

BTW, how to stop AI diplomat to bribe everyone?

[Aemilius Paulus]

BTW, how to stop AI diplomat to bribe everyone?

Kill them on sight with assassins.



But guys, it is impossible that Sabyn bribed them. I do have AI moves option checked on and I follow everything AI does. I always scan for their diplomats and keep a log of my campaign. According to my log, I murdered 5 Ptolie diplomats, 3 AS, 2 Haysadan, 2 Pontic, 1 Getai, 1 Baktria, 1 Pahlava, and 2 Kart-Hadastim in the past 10-15 years in the Balkan area. Plus, I do not remember even seeing the Sabaen diplomats, and my memory almost never fails me, as it is exceptional.

Not to mention, no Sweboz Army came that far, and if you look at Swebozi holdings, such event is exceedingly improbable. To send four units alone all the way there is stupidity that not even AI ever performed in any of my vanilla, EB, and other mod campaigns.



Finally, bribing would have caused war between the Sabyn and Sweboz, something that has never happened so far.

[Vasiliyi]

It is a glitch in the game that we will never figure out.

[Cute Wolf]

Killing them with assasins? allready do when they spawns horde of diplomats, but I did realize that killing diplomats is not a good manner for civilized hellens....

[Aemilius Paulus]

It is a glitch in the game that we will never figure out.

It may have soemthing to do with the fact that I used some 1.2 files on my EB 1.1 when transferring to alex.exe from rtw.exe, which caused my existing but basically finished Romani campaign to mess up horribly, with all the FM traits changed beyond recognition (slain by Sabaens, etc)... However, I had overwritten those 1.2 files with 1.1 and my ongoing Eperios is just fine.


@Cute Wolf: I am a Machiavellian in RL, and Machiavellian in EB. I play by the rules only when it suits me, again, both in RL and in EB. So, , who cares what "rights" those lousy, up-to-no-good dips have? Finally, Epriotes were always the least civilised of Greeks, as they were barbaroi to most Hellenes. I believe even the Aitolians and Achaeans had a better reputation. So why not assassinate them? Not to mention, I am assuming your statement was a mere quip, right?

[Cute Wolf]

Well, in M2TW, I usually stomp diplomats with 7 captains! poor thing that they couldn't be done in RTW.... and Assasins can't get auto_assasinate attacker

[Aemilius Paulus]

Well, in M2TW, I usually stomp diplomats with 7 captains! poor thing that they couldn't be done in RTW.... and Assasins can't get auto_assasinate attacker

Wow. You sir, are archaic. As for the console command, forget it. Assassination of FMs is virtually impossible in EB, but murdering dips is a crumb of a cake. Reload if you fail. Or do a battle/reboot EB, which will recent the success probability calculator.

[Ca Putt]

I only kill diplomats that camp on my territory. but lately the KH(they belonged to an vast alliance including everybody who hates me) gifted me 5000 mnai, as Sweboz that's not too bad :D

wouldn't they have the Sweboz skin if they were bribed of the Sweboz? so no diplomat who took the long way around the black sea and hid in the woods? on second sight, that's very close to your empire. hmmm.
Well think of it that way: there is a more active eleutheroi army roaming around there and it also brings a new look in the area :D

[Pobs]

Hi AP,

how sure are you it spawned ?... ir seems to me that if a diplomat in the Sweboz lands had managed to bribe it, then this army could be walking back to its new Saba masters homelands when you see it. The diplomat wouldn't need to be anywhere near your lands to have caught a Sweboz army, so perhaps you just havent seen him ?... how about that possibility ?..


cheers,



Pobs

[Aemilius Paulus]

how sure are you it spawned ?... ir seems to me that if a diplomat in the Sweboz lands had managed to bribe it, then this army could be walking back to its new Saba masters homelands when you see it. The diplomat wouldn't need to be anywhere near your lands to have caught a Sweboz army, so perhaps you just havent seen him ?... how about that possibility ?..

Hmmm, quite a hunch there. I daresay, that was the best explanation I have heard so far! Still, I have AI moves turned on most of the time, so I see everything AI does. I tell you, I saw that army literally apparate, spawn, and not merely move to that location.

[ziegenpeter]

Are these maybe eleutheroi sweboz units?

[V.T. Marvin]

Finally, bribing would have caused war between the Sabyn and Sweboz, something that has never happened so far.

Actually, it would have not. Rebellions DO cause outbraks of war between the two factions involved, but simple bribe DOES NOT.
You can even bribe whole city from neutrals or even your allies (if you would like to do so) without them noticing anything wrong on your part.

As for the "follow AI movement" option - you would have seen that diplomat bribing them only if you had some unit/spy in the area. My bet woud a random diplomat not knowing what to do with his money - I have seen similar instances in my games too.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Actually, it would have not. Rebellions DO cause outbraks of war between the two factions involved, but simple bribe DOES NOT.
You can even bribe whole city from neutrals or even your allies (if you would like to do so) without them noticing anything wrong on your part.

Hmmm... Seems impossible to me as I have once bribed Alexandria in vanilla as Brutii, from the Egyptians (vanilla is to me; forever since I played it). As soon as I bribed the city, war was declared, automatically I believe. Are you certain? I would trust you more than myself if I did not remember Alexandria...

[athanaric]

Hmmm... Seems impossible to me as I have once bribed Alexandria in vanilla as Brutii, from the Egyptians (vanilla is to me; forever since I played it). As soon as I bribed the city, war was declared, automatically I believe. Are you certain? I would trust you more than myself if I did not remember Alexandria...

Bribing does'nt start wars. I've tried this a million times in EB, as I'm excessively bribe-happy. In my Romani campaign I bribed the provinces of Korsim, Sardin and Baleares from Qart-Hadast and they didn't break the alliance.

BTW, to answer one of the posts above: unit skins can change with bribes. When I bribed a Swêboz army with the Romaioi, the Dugunðiz unit in it changed, like this:

Swêboz Dugunðiz.
Everybody else's Dugunðiz.

[antisocialmunky]

You can always trap them within a box of your diplomats for all eternity.