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Thread: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

  1. #1
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    Fascinating report on a new study showing that DRM enrages everyone to the point where law-abiding consumers will consider (and commit) acts of piracy to avoid it. This does not surprise me.

    According to the first empirical study of its kind in the UK, by Cambridge law professor Patricia Akester, it's the former. DRM is so rage-inducing, even to ordinary, legal users of content, that it can even drive the blind to download illegal electronic Bibles. [...]

    The study confirms what anyone who has ever wanted to rip a DVD to their computer or iPod could have told you: DRM, coupled with anticircumvention laws, makes pirates of us all.

    Akester offers some possible solutions to the problem. They are worth reading, but they are also unlikely to be implemented for years. In the meantime, copyright exceptions for the blind, libraries, teachers, and for fair use will continue to be limited by a crafty mixture of code and law.

    Of course, as Bright points out, the massive lobbying, legislative, legal, and technical effort that underlies all these DRM regimes does so little to stop piracy that we'd be tempted to laugh at the folly of it all if we weren't already weeping.


  2. #2
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    I agree with Lemur. If you really want to stop piracy, have a system like Steam or measures that allow law-bidding users to get the product and even put it on multiple machines they might use as well.

    They make too many demands to get you to fork out more money, but not enough compromises. There are games for example that are simply not worth the money they are charging and should actually price it in relation to work that is required and standard demanded.
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  3. #3
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    Steam? Ugh. The trend for games to force downloads of patches is growing, as is the number of patches that breaks more than it fixes (especially for those of us who view the game as buying the engine and spend more time playing mods).

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    what they should do is a steam-like program that needs your permission to download patches.
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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    Patches can be turned off. So the point isn't really a point.

    The benefits however are a DRM-free system (other than Steam itself) where you can get all your updates, download games onto any computer without the need of disks and all sorts features and benefits. If all other games used the platform as well, it would really encourage the growth of legitimate gaming.

    Compared with other DRM such as EA's DRM system they forced everyone to comply with, with Spore, where you could only install the game 3 times then it no longer worked. Filled your computer full of spyware and other programmes that couldn't even connect to the internet through a proxy, so the game doesn't even work in the first place. The list goes on.
    Last edited by Beskar; 05-28-2009 at 19:35.
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  6. #6
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    I like disks. I don't need an internet connection. I can reinstall inside of a day as its on DVD. I don't need my HDD containing every game I might play as I have a DVD folder. I often burn mods I like onto DVDs to store with them in case I can't get them again.

    I like the idea that once one has downloaded additions a torrent client distributes it to others to take load off the servers as well as get hold of older content. But when I get it I want control of how I store it.

    Right up there with the fact backup DVD movies play the movies right away, whereas the originals faff for ages with intros, warnings, disclaimers and other drivel.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    I like disks. I don't need an internet connection. I can reinstall inside of a day as its on DVD. I don't need my HDD containing every game I might play as I have a DVD folder. I often burn mods I like onto DVDs to store with them in case I can't get them again.

    That is definitely my preferred way of getting a game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar
    The benefits however are a DRM-free system (other than Steam itself)
    Steam is DRM.
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  8. #8
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    I on the other hand dislike Disk. You get burdened with trying to store them, you got to find them, especially as I am never in the same location, I have to wait or held-up if I have to go out of my way to go and get disks. The best way is a service such as Steam where I can just download within an hour tops have it all working and fully up-to-date.

    If the game gets deleted, I can just re-download it if I want to return to it.

    However, I also do own an External 1 Terrabyte Hard-drive where I keep .ISO copies and movies, etc.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    Gamersgate owns Steam at any time of the day. No silly downloader, just buy, dl and play 0% hassle in a matter of minutes. I pity those who play Empire with Steam...
    Last edited by A Terribly Harmful Name; 05-28-2009 at 20:05.

  10. #10
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    If the game gets deleted, I can just re-download it if I want to return to it.
    Assuming Valve is still around as a company when you try to revisit. Any game requiring a internet server is just a rental. You can be denied access at any time, for any reason.
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  11. #11
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Burgoyne View Post
    I pity those who play Empire with Steam...
    Um, whether you bought it on disks or not, you have to use Steam to play Empire. Maybe I'm not understanding the comment ...

  12. #12
    ............... Member Scurvy's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    I really dislike Steam, it has caused me countless problems, and irritates me much.

  13. #13
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    I on the other hand dislike Disk. You get burdened with trying to store them, you got to find them, especially as I am never in the same location, I have to wait or held-up if I have to go out of my way to go and get disks. The best way is a service such as Steam where I can just download within an hour tops have it all working and fully up-to-date.

    If the game gets deleted, I can just re-download it if I want to return to it.

    However, I also do own an External 1 Terrabyte Hard-drive where I keep .ISO copies and movies, etc.
    not true anymore. most games on cd only need you to use the disk for installation. Crysis, ETW (disk version), and Company of Heroes.
    as of last year, they needed internet connection to play without a disk, as is the case with CoH, but now with Crysis Warhead and Crysis Wars, you dont need the disk even if you arent connected to the internet.
    all this makes life easier for us gamers who use laptops, like me, who doesnt want to carry around disks. as of now, i have 4 games on my laptop, and only 1 disk, which i keep in the cd drive: Crysis, CoH, ETW and Battlefield 2142 (which needs a disk to play).
    works for me.
    also, disks are better for the people, like me, who have somewhat slow internet connections, who dont want to wait an eternity for the game to download.
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    Honorary Argentinian Senior Member Gyroball Champion, Karts Champion Caius's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    Sure, but its annoying when you have that OLD 10 year game that you want to play but its damn too damaged to read Autorun.exe.




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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    would 10-year old games be on steam? i never used steam until ETW.

    my impression is that with the new "no-cd" games, you can safely store your cds for future need, like in 10 years.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 05-28-2009 at 21:48.
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  16. #16
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    Actually, I've had some old game CDs go bad. One of them couldn't have been more than seven years old. Let us all bless Good Old Games for keeping the flame, or I would never have been able to replay Fallout.

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    I just had to track down the full comic version of the picture you posted in the OP. Normally kids' mascots don't look like they're on so much crack.

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  18. #18
    Probably Drunk Member Reverend Joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    They're also not normally as ironic as a weasel representing a copyright law propaganda machine.
    Last edited by Reverend Joe; 05-28-2009 at 22:50.

  19. #19

    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    Um, whether you bought it on disks or not, you have to use Steam to play Empire. Maybe I'm not understanding the comment ...
    Yep. I pity those who play Empire at all. Because it's a crappy game with a crappy protection scheme.

  20. #20
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    lets leave game commentary out of this, shall we?
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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    Problem I have with Steam -
    I want the change the account name.
    I want to reclaim a game from another account I forgot about years ago.

    Both are not possible.
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  22. #22
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    Actually, I've had some old game CDs go bad. One of them couldn't have been more than seven years old. Let us all bless Good Old Games for keeping the flame, or I would never have been able to replay Fallout.
    Dude... thanks for that link. I've been hunting an old copy of "Going Postal". (1)
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  23. #23
    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan View Post
    Dude... thanks for that link. I've been hunting an old copy of "Going Postal". (1)
    No! No! No! You are supposed to be very offended that the game is offered.
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  24. #24
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Problem I have with Steam -
    I want the change the account name.
    Actually, you can change the name everybody sees, even if you can't change your login name.

    File / Settings / Friends / Nickname

    Here's my biggest question for Steam -- what happens to people who go to places where online connections may not happen for weeks or months? Merchant marine, for instance, or soldiers on deployment? How long can you milk the "offline mode"?

  25. #25
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    It works fine. Just don't be looking to use the multiplayer features though.
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  26. #26
    Heaps Gooder Member aimlesswanderer's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    I do not see why I should not be able to roll back patches, since often the "fixes" result in serious CTD errors. I like being able to reinstall and patch the game as much as I want.

    This silly Steam business is more like renting the game than actually buying it.
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  27. #27
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    You are talking game specific, aka, E:TW.

    Don't brand Steam bad because CA can't code for . Valve has one of the biggest developer studios and its games are realised also bug-free other a couple of balancing issues for online play.

    With Steam, you aren't renting, you own the account, which you even if you got a brand new computer, you can just sign in and install games on the fly. If anything, it is closer to Xbox Live witht he friends list, etc etc, with ultimately your games pretty much on download for ever because it will be a long time before the system ever goes down.
    Last edited by Beskar; 05-29-2009 at 14:40.
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  28. #28
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    There is nothign wrong with web piracy when it comes to copyright infringement. I wish that more people would just do it so that it becomes an insignificant blip. Kill copyright with indiference. Stream movies and music - don't download them. Crack games with DRM so that they can be played on any computer, at any time. The digital age has killed this absurd notion, but it is still writhing there, seemingly with life.

    They are still demanding your money even though you don't need to pay them anymore. A better system for everyone will rise up from the ashes.



    PS - I actually like steam. It is a clever and fair way to regulate both your property and the rights of the company. I agree with Beskar that Empire stinks becasue it stinks. The patches lately have done a pretty decent job of fixing issues taking the game closer to what we all know it is, but steam has nothing to do with the smell of turd. Why do 2nd and 1st rate ships cause the game to crash if you click on them? Why do blocks of trading convoys becoem unusable if you add directly to them without removing them from the trading zone first? Why has nobody ever seen or fought the Pueblo Indians due to CTD? The world may never know. I can't blame steam for this.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 05-29-2009 at 15:03.
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  29. #29
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    The industry needs to change, yes. Most logical route would be going to way of Stream, and other various things such as BBC iPlayer with streaming media. The same should be done with music.

    Punishing legitimate users isn't the way to stop privacy, it only encourages it.
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  30. #30
    Honorary Argentinian Senior Member Gyroball Champion, Karts Champion Caius's Avatar
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    Default Re: DRM Makes Pirates of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    Actually, I've had some old game CDs go bad. One of them couldn't have been more than seven years old. Let us all bless Good Old Games for keeping the flame, or I would never have been able to replay Fallout.
    Yet, GoG won't give me a copy of SWAT 3. If I have the CD key of the game I bought, could I download the game and use the key to play it?




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