HEEEEELP!!! against countless elite Roman stacks!

[Duguntz]

Hello Everyone! it's sometime already that I play EB, but my first post here (yeah, personal pride obliged me to say, no I'll kick those Roman asses barehanded...) But , every time it's the same thing... I'm a complete Sweboz deicated player (as the name says it!) and my hubbersuper berserkers expand quiet easily till the alps, nice hein, mines everywhere = money, = army... and then POW, comes the 230's 220's and it's every single campain the same thing, the romans comes with full of really beautifull flashy, red banners, to decorate a bit the map, with about 5 pedite extraordinarii, 5 triarii, and every other bit of elite they can find... to beat one, still, is possible (with monstruous casualty on my side however) but my almost-nude-dudes (and completly for couple of them!) cannot sustain repetitive attack year after year of full elite stack... any idea? I know how to fight, but still, I'm no hannibal! so does anyone have a miracle to propose me? or any idea of an army nicely fitted to fight those terminators?

Thanks every one and EB, you did a great job... and if I might propose a book that can help you in your historical quest, it's the book ''the celts'' by Venceslas Kruta... It's an archeological bible!

Sorry for my english, it's obviously not my first language!

[Atraphoenix]

sorry pal I quit playing with sweboz Cos I think sweboz was underpowered

[Duguntz]

Well Atraphoenix I start to think the same... those clubmen who're suppose to have amazing ap attribute, they get eaten by anything that pass around (perhaps they used to hunt rabbits to feed the main army back in the time! lol) But after... wait, about 30 campaings that stop right at the same place, I'm getting tired of that! So that raise another question to those who will kindly read that thread : is Sweboz underpowered?

Oh well, thanks anyway pal!

[Cute Wolf]

Use slahgonez, they re pretty effective against those armoured romans, and don't forget to train some wothiz wotha or wargozez, just in case you need to frighten them out... (EDIT: If you use clubmen alone without proper support from frightening unit, they are useless anyway!!!) What elite did you mean? If they sent countless triarii, they re just normal, albeit had veteran status, soldiers.... Cohors reformata? your heavy cavalry will easily cut them down... the only thing that made Sweboz die fast is missile, so you had to close up as quickly as possible and fight hand to hand like a true men!

Sweboz is not underpowered when you know the right trick, many of their soldiers come cheap, and they could move better in wintery situation.... fight the romans in the forest if you must fight a superrior stack... (don't forget to activate those banners first, in case you can't see your men... and never use cavalry in the woods anyway)...

Welcome to the org.... Duguntiz

[Owen Glyndwr]

Sweboz is not underpowered when you know the right trick, many of their soldiers come cheap, and they could move better in wintery situation.... fight the romans in the forest if you must fight a superrior stack... (don't forget to activate those banners first, in case you can't see your men... and never use cavalry in the woods anyway)...

Welcome to the org.... Duguntiz

Lol, sounds surprisingly like what the Germans did to the Romans in history! I know you said that you know how to fight, but what do you do, specifically? Do you sit and skirmish for a while? Do you just run in and duke it out head to head with the infantry for awhile? Do you flank with cavalry, and if so, what kind? Is it heavy cavalry, or light? And if you flank with cavalry, how do you do it? Do you charge once and let them hang there? Or do you pull out and charge multiple times?

The problem with this game (not really a problem) is simple that the morale levels are improved, so all the units take a lot longer to start retreating. This is something every vanilla player has to get used to, as most vanilla players are used to cavalry charges making battles take all of five seconds.

[Atraphoenix]

If you compare sweboz with celts or even Getai they are the weakest barbarian faction. I call this as they are underpowered in comparison to others. You can beat AS with Saba that does not mean they are not underpowered. In fact, It is logical to underpower the factions for the sake of realism. I do not complain but I do not play.

[TheStranger]

Duguntz, what is your difficulty setting?

[Cute Wolf]

Although I didn't like barbarian factions... I do manage to use them effectively against stack after stack of Heavy infantry (Pray they didn't have to face tons of sarrisae, this tactic is USELESS AGAINST HELLENS )

Well, lets talk about battle with Sweboz first (not skirmishing tactics):
and or
These men should form your front line (but not the majority, 5-6 is enough), but try not too get too many of them without proper support... place them with fire at will, and put them in a long, single line...
or other archers
1 or 2 is must in your army... you may argue that they are useless against those heavy armoured Romani bastards, but the key is use flaming missiles first (except the Romans carry some lightly armoured skirmishers, which is their job to pwnd them without flaming missiles which is inaccurate)... place them a bit in the left and (if 2 present) in the right side.... try to fire the flaming arrows in the center of the romans, when they near your frightening units..
If you can get some of these
They should placed in reserves to shoot at the farthest enemy available... try to train them against eleutheroi stacks first (autocalc with superrior army, and then retrain), as they could be very effective attacker with 4 chevrons or more... 1 of them should be able to sting those romans... but try not to carry more than 2...

Place them RIGHT BEHIND YOUR FIRST LINE, with fire at will on.... 3 of them should be enough (1 in the left, 1 in the center, 1 in the right, as they will cover up your men's horrible morale, and made the Romans more horrible)
Your general should form the second battle line in the CENTER! (so his inspiring presence will be spread equally, and no cavalry charges will kill him prematurely)
With any of these warriors (assorted type is the best, just place swords - spears - swords - spears - swords - spears.... and count your BG as swords) and place another 2 spear behind the right and left swords....
ororor other swords - spears units
The cavalry is Reserve, and try to place them in charge to charging enemy from the back when your second battle line clash... (notice... use any cheap, light cav that EASILY REPLACEABLE, local cav is the best, and never use mercs since sweboz economy is a bit horrible...) if u can got Sarmatians, this was better...
If you train some of these use them to fortify the flank in the first line (never try to skirmish independently in open field battle with them against Romans, their javelins will be wasted against those Scutum, try to flank with their javelins!, skirmish mode off)
IMPORTANT NOTE!!! Place your men as close as possible to the Romans (don't affraid if u have lesser numbers... as long as not completely outnumbered)

The battle:
1) Sent your first line running toward Roman line, but then pause, and manually order them to charge one by one, each against a specific unit in Roman frontline... use their javelins in flip flop tactic... with the farthest soldiers (both in right and left) throw jav first while some of them charging head on... this line could confuse the Romans, and perhaps made some of them show their backs to be pierced with the second line's jav... Well, try to move your frightening units as close as possible, but don't attack with them yet...
2) Move (don't run... here we try to exhaust the romans first) your second battle line, and order them to shoot their javs against roman line... then use your center to plug any gap, and the right wing and left wing try to flank the Romans.... Don';t worry this wasn't vanilla... your gens presence should be capable to keep your line intact in some time... buying flank time...
3) order the Center wothiz watha to attack the gap, or move through and join battle....
4) use your cav... (don't use them when u play in forest, just replace them with more wothiz watha or wargozez
5) final punch! attack their weakest and most cowardly flank with right and left Wothiz watha..... they should run by now.... and TRY TO CHASE OFF ROUTERS WITH YOUR ARMY LIKE TRUE BARBARIANS!!! (your stamina is better than them) so they can't regroup...

The trick is timing and try to enggange their generals as soon as possible.... you should able to perform this correctly in medium battle difficulty (hard screw sweboz)

Wothiz wathe is frightening and very effective when used correctly to deliver killing blows, but they are useless alone....

A tactics against PHALANX based army is the opposite of this... you should skirmish and try to lure them one by one.... and HA army pwnd your force without many of your cav present.... but You can't kill both as effectively u kill the Romans... And I generally annoy sauromatae and Makedon much more than Romans when I play Barbarians... Romans are just walking tin can....

[Duguntz]

TheStranger, my settings are at hard (I used to play very hard for campiang, but I got pissed off of enemies refusing a ceasefire when reduced to one city...) and medium for battle...
I used to play vh - vh... anyway, the campain stopped at the same place... and on everypost, to have a well balanced game, the majority seems to agree on medium for battles... so here am I tying and finding that those walking bucket still kick my ass...

Owen, usually, I pinned them down with my spearmen, and flanked 'em with the slagonez, fired 'em with skujonez and when possible, charge (repeatidly) on their back with light cavalry... but i read the post of cute wolf (by the way cute wolf, thanks a lot for all those tactic infos!) and I see that I greatly underestimated the effectiveness of fear... I didn't built any of those make-up guys (althought I trained some naked fanatics from conquered celtic cities... But don't use them extensively as they die like flies... and of corse, i try most often to wait them in forest... and when I've the chance (very, veeeeery rarely) to fight 'em in a forest the winter, things get easier! a lil bit!

For the elite stack, there are triarii, but mostly pedite extraordinarii and elite saminiti heavy infantry... My poor Duguntiz don't fare well against those, but I'll try strait away all your tips! Thanks, you guys are great! I dunno how to give baloon, but I'd offer one to all of you! lol! (yeah, sound pretty bad not to know how to give a balloon... University takes time! lol!

[Maion Maroneios]

I guess it's something you're going to have to live with. Historically, the German tribes might have been strong due to their ferociousness in combat and physical strength and appearance, but a poorly armoured man won't be able to stand long against an well-armoured and disciplined Roman cohort for example.

If you want to expand in their (the Romans') expense, I guess you'll have to launch some kind of massive invasion of Italia. Raise several fullstacks, and focus on key points of threir Empire. Economic powerhouses, mining centers, military centers. Put them on the chokehold, then launch a full-force invasion from both land and water (though it's probably not worth taking your fleets there, unless you have ports in the Mesogeios). Rip the beating heart of the Empire (Roma) if you can. Pillage, sack and plunder whenever you can. You'll eventually leave them in a crippled state, not able to resist you. You just need vast (and I literally mean vast) resources and manpower for such an invasion. So make sure you plan your moves well.

Generally, I don't think you should fear them too much. I don't think they're very inerested in the Germanic forests. Plus, dense woodlands give you an advantage. So you can carefully plan your moves, even though you might loose some holdings from the Romaioi. Maybe you can even post some pics of your situation?

Maion

[Duguntz]

GRRRRRR, got my revange... they took me aventico vilendicopilos (is that right?) wich are two great mining center... I had a real (I mean real) hard time to take them back, as my economy was crippled, and I had to guard two considerable garrisons in cities constantly attacked by Gauls (scums, all of 'em!) But with pacience (and I must admit, a whole part of luck!) i took them back, hold 'em long enough to build one full stack, captured with t pativavum and Mediolanum (that was the lucky part, as there are no wood nerby, but between, where I wasn't!) then with the extra cash of extermination, (because they're even not worth to my slaves) built another full stack and while most of their army was playing with Arverni and Epeirot, I took Segesta and Bononia. Now, I got extra cash, but their're comming fast from the south italy and althouth pativavum and mediolanum were great moves (plus noth of pativavum one of their mining center) I think that Segesta and Bononia was a bit overextending, and so leave me with no serious army to counter a eventual attack from Massilia (in their hands and very (VERY) well garrisoned... Oh well, we'll see in the future... Only thing that bug me a bit... I like using Historical accurate army, but as I'm advencing more south, I've to cope with more and more local troups... Anyway, that's a part of every empire...

Hmmm, i'd love to upload pictures of my situation, but I don't know how... so... how?

[DaciaJC]

I assume you used Print Screen to take screenshots in-game, yes? If so, you can find those pictures in the tgas folder in the same location as your EB folder. Use another program, such as IrfanView, to convert the .tgas into some more useful format, like .jpeg. Then use a hosting site, like PhotoBucket, to upload your pictures. You will get an image code once you upload your pictures that you can paste here with the Insert Image button.

[miotas]

If you think that you have over extended yourself then tear down all the buildings in the town, raise taxes to max and then withdraw all your forces to a point that you can hold.

Another option is gifting it to an ally, except it doesnt sount like you have any.

[Captain Pugwash]

Im playing audei and having the same issues against Rome. Countless stacks often greater than the number they should/could ever recruit from the number of towns available and the cost???????? well I managed nowhere near it. Must be cash extras etc the Ai gets.

Tactics. Use the superior forrest skills of the babs and try to leave your troops hidden. Your general cannot hide but if you double up then the junior genereal does. Your main general sits in the open and then if you can go for a walk preferably uphill etc to exaust the opposition. Lure them back the trees and engage. You pick up good ambusher stars and increase your morale etc. Are you aware some temples on recruitment gives increase exp and morale markers. Use them at at the main recruitment centres, though I do not know how the unit morale is effected and by how much when teamed up with a gen.

Once routed you must continue and wipe out the stack , otherwise it is regrouped reloaded to a full stack and chances are its picked up some exp which gives them another advantage when it returns.

Try and take the mining town which sit to the right of Massilia in the alps. It will give you phalanx troops - Alpine phx and mons something. Govt 4 with a mic 2 for the former then replace with gov 2 to get the latter. Both excellant against anything especially cav which the romans use in abundance.

Good luck.

You are likely to get a roman diplomat turn up at a target town. Put a gen with some loyalty. Whilst turning the bribes down he will get honest trusty devoted traits etc which increases inf and law etc which is useful. Once done swap and replace.

[Sdragon]

If you own the North of the Alps then make use of locals. Celtic Axemen and Rhaetic Axemen are the perfect units for fighting the Romans. Also the Alpine phalanx use spears and Axes so they are great for holding the line. You can also grab some Helvetii phalanx troops. You need to use these guys since your native units recruitment will soon be too far away and it'll be a while before you get the reforms to make your own heavies.

[antisocialmunky]

If you're the celts, loads of mountain forts + 1 levy spearmen can delay the romans fairly well so you can masse units to hold at the bridges.

[Cute Wolf]

I trained some naked fanatics from conquered celtic cities... But don't use them extensively as they die like flies...

Hah... Gaesatae die like flies????? They have a 2 Hp???

Oh... You must mean Urodusios..............

[Atraphoenix]

hey, celts have one of the best Assault units in the game, do not say it is hard to defeat romans with celts. But sweboz has no variety of troops. So if you play with sweboz you have to take care of QUANTITY NOT QUALITY.

[Duguntz]

Hey hey hey! That's true about quantity, but till the reform! you know, I underestiamted those jugontis xatiska (young clubmen) with 3 or fous chevron, two of them just EAT the pedites extraordinarii and spit the rest behind! so good for quantity, but I can assure that quality (and mostly experiance) make a real differance! and a couple of those apea gaedoto do miracle with their axe! hmmm, but still, must built a lvl 3 temple in each of my cities (gruesome amout of money there) But at the end, it pays off to train a unit with gold chevron at base!!! so circle of Deiwoz plus field game plus blacksmith (when i capture cities with it, otherwise, it's too expensive for my really crappy finances) = Nightmare of roman!!! I just captured rome by the way, and Roleplay-wise, should I destroy their marvel inside (that ubber temple of Jupiter that worth 20 000 mnai?

[Silence Hunter]

and Roleplay-wise, should I destroy their marvel inside (that ubber temple of Jupiter that worth 20 000 mnai?

You are barbarian! Of course you should!

Never played a Sweboz campaign, but this thread is tempting me to start one... too bad I have 6 exams coming so it will have to wait

[Duguntz]

You are barbarian! Of course you should!

Never played a Sweboz campaign, but this thread is tempting me to start one... too bad I have 6 exams coming so it will have to wait

mouhaha, come my child, come to the barbarian side of the civilisation, saking awaits you and it's so nice to know that our ''winners'' make flee the mighty legions!!! I'm glad the my thread gave you interest in Sweboz! But first, concentrate on your exams and good luck for that! i still have 2 months before mine at the Univ.!

[russia almighty]

I assume you have a good economic situation, so don't be a cheap bastard.


That means start buying thengoz, and their heavy cavalry brothers. Romans will get cut to bits by your family members too.

[mountaingoat]

don't the sweboz have an non armored 2h sword unit ? or is that only in MP?

[Macilrille]

They do not, but they can recruit/hire? one in one of the Alpine cities, possibly Raetia.

[Atraphoenix]

AFAIK they can recruit Alpine Phalanx in the alpine regions so an early assault on alps is a good strategy for sweboz.

[Atraphoenix]

they have two handed swordsman but in upper germany close to capital. I forgot its name but I checked it. If last RV is correct....
Its name is Lugian Swordsman recruitable in Lugouw ( Expansion )
these guys:

[mountaingoat]

that's the one i was talking about , they seem to do pretty good , but due to no armor their numbers can dwindle fairly quick.

[Atraphoenix]

"Scots : antidote to English,
Missile : antidote to Sweboz.
Gasatae: antidote to phalanx."