HEEEEELP!!! against countless elite Roman stacks!

**Duguntz** · 05-14-2009, 13:13

Hello Everyone! it's sometime already that I play EB, but my first post here (yeah, personal pride obliged me to say, no I'll kick those Roman asses barehanded...) But

, every time it's the same thing... I'm a complete Sweboz deicated player (as the name says it!) and my hubbersuper berserkers expand quiet easily till the alps, nice hein, mines everywhere = money, = army... and then POW, comes the 230's 220's and it's every single campain the same thing, the romans comes with full of really beautifull flashy, red banners, to decorate a bit the map, with about 5 pedite extraordinarii, 5 triarii, and every other bit of elite they can find... to beat one, still, is possible (with monstruous casualty on my side however) but my almost-nude-dudes (and completly for couple of them!) cannot sustain repetitive attack year after year of full elite stack... any idea? I know how to fight, but still, I'm no hannibal! so does anyone have a miracle to propose me? or any idea of an army nicely fitted to fight those terminators?

Thanks every one and EB, you did a great job... and if I might propose a book that can help you in your historical quest, it's the book ''the celts'' by Venceslas Kruta... It's an archeological bible!

Sorry for my english, it's obviously not my first language!

**Atraphoenix** · 05-14-2009, 13:37

sorry pal I quit playing with sweboz Cos I think sweboz was underpowered

**Duguntz** · 05-14-2009, 13:48

Well Atraphoenix I start to think the same... those clubmen who're suppose to have amazing ap attribute, they get eaten by anything that pass around (perhaps they used to hunt rabbits to feed the main army back in the time! lol) But after... wait, about 30 campaings that stop right at the same place, I'm getting tired of that! So that raise another question to those who will kindly read that thread : is Sweboz underpowered?

Oh well, thanks anyway pal!

**Cute Wolf** · 05-14-2009, 13:55

Use slahgonez, they re pretty effective against those armoured romans, and don't forget to train some wothiz wotha or wargozez, just in case you need to frighten them out... (EDIT: If you use clubmen alone without proper support from frightening unit, they are useless anyway!!!) What elite did you mean? If they sent countless triarii, they re just normal, albeit had veteran status, soldiers.... Cohors reformata? your heavy cavalry will easily cut them down... the only thing that made Sweboz die fast is missile, so you had to close up as quickly as possible and fight hand to hand like a true men!

Sweboz is not underpowered when you know the right trick, many of their soldiers come cheap, and they could move better in wintery situation.... fight the romans in the forest if you must fight a superrior stack... (don't forget to activate those banners first, in case you can't see your men... and never use cavalry in the woods anyway)...

Welcome to the org.... Duguntiz

**Owen Glyndwr** · 05-14-2009, 14:26

Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

Sweboz is not underpowered when you know the right trick, many of their soldiers come cheap, and they could move better in wintery situation.... fight the romans in the forest if you must fight a superrior stack... (don't forget to activate those banners first, in case you can't see your men... and never use cavalry in the woods anyway)...

Welcome to the org.... Duguntiz

Lol, sounds surprisingly like what the Germans did to the Romans in history! I know you said that you know how to fight, but what do you do, specifically? Do you sit and skirmish for a while? Do you just run in and duke it out head to head with the infantry for awhile? Do you flank with cavalry, and if so, what kind? Is it heavy cavalry, or light? And if you flank with cavalry, how do you do it? Do you charge once and let them hang there? Or do you pull out and charge multiple times?

The problem with this game (not really a problem) is simple that the morale levels are improved, so all the units take a lot longer to start retreating. This is something every vanilla player has to get used to, as most vanilla players are used to cavalry charges making battles take all of five seconds.

**Atraphoenix** · 05-14-2009, 14:42

If you compare sweboz with celts or even Getai they are the weakest barbarian faction. I call this as they are underpowered in comparison to others. You can beat AS with Saba that does not mean they are not underpowered. In fact, It is logical to underpower the factions for the sake of realism. I do not complain but I do not play.

**TheStranger** · 05-14-2009, 14:57

Duguntz, what is your difficulty setting?

**Cute Wolf** · 05-14-2009, 15:19

Although I didn't like barbarian factions... I do manage to use them effectively against stack after stack of Heavy infantry (Pray they didn't have to face tons of sarrisae, this tactic is USELESS AGAINST HELLENS )

Well, lets talk about battle with Sweboz first (not skirmishing tactics):

and or

These men should form your front line (but not the majority, 5-6 is enough), but try not too get too many of them without proper support... place them with fire at will, and put them in a long, single line...

or other archers
1 or 2 is must in your army... you may argue that they are useless against those heavy armoured Romani bastards, but the key is use flaming missiles first (except the Romans carry some lightly armoured skirmishers, which is their job to pwnd them without flaming missiles which is inaccurate)... place them a bit in the left and (if 2 present) in the right side.... try to fire the flaming arrows in the center of the romans, when they near your frightening units..
If you can get some of these

They should placed in reserves to shoot at the farthest enemy available... try to train them against eleutheroi stacks first (autocalc with superrior army, and then retrain), as they could be very effective attacker with 4 chevrons or more... 1 of them should be able to sting those romans... but try not to carry more than 2...

Place them RIGHT BEHIND YOUR FIRST LINE, with fire at will on.... 3 of them should be enough (1 in the left, 1 in the center, 1 in the right, as they will cover up your men's horrible morale, and made the Romans more horrible)
Your general should form the second battle line in the CENTER! (so his inspiring presence will be spread equally, and no cavalry charges will kill him prematurely)
With any of these warriors (assorted type is the best, just place swords - spears - swords - spears - swords - spears.... and count your BG as swords) and place another 2 spear behind the right and left swords....

or

or other swords - spears units
The cavalry is Reserve, and try to place them in charge to charging enemy from the back when your second battle line clash... (notice... use any cheap, light cav that EASILY REPLACEABLE, local cav is the best, and never use mercs since sweboz economy is a bit horrible...) if u can got Sarmatians, this was better...
If you train some of these

use them to fortify the flank in the first line (never try to skirmish independently in open field battle with them against Romans, their javelins will be wasted against those Scutum, try to flank with their javelins!, skirmish mode off)
IMPORTANT NOTE!!! Place your men as close as possible to the Romans (don't affraid if u have lesser numbers... as long as not completely outnumbered)

The battle:
1) Sent your first line running toward Roman line, but then pause, and manually order them to charge one by one, each against a specific unit in Roman frontline... use their javelins in flip flop tactic... with the farthest soldiers (both in right and left) throw jav first while some of them charging head on... this line could confuse the Romans, and perhaps made some of them show their backs to be pierced with the second line's jav... Well, try to move your frightening units as close as possible, but don't attack with them yet...
2) Move (don't run... here we try to exhaust the romans first) your second battle line, and order them to shoot their javs against roman line... then use your center to plug any gap, and the right wing and left wing try to flank the Romans.... Don';t worry this wasn't vanilla... your gens presence should be capable to keep your line intact in some time... buying flank time...
3) order the Center wothiz watha to attack the gap, or move through and join battle....
4) use your cav... (don't use them when u play in forest, just replace them with more wothiz watha or wargozez
5) final punch! attack their weakest and most cowardly flank with right and left Wothiz watha..... they should run by now.... and TRY TO CHASE OFF ROUTERS WITH YOUR ARMY LIKE TRUE BARBARIANS!!! (your stamina is better than them) so they can't regroup...

The trick is timing and try to enggange their generals as soon as possible....

you should able to perform this correctly in medium battle difficulty (hard screw sweboz)

Wothiz wathe is frightening and very effective when used correctly to deliver killing blows, but they are useless alone....

A tactics against PHALANX based army is the opposite of this... you should skirmish and try to lure them one by one.... and HA army pwnd your force without many of your cav present.... but You can't kill both as effectively u kill the Romans... And I generally annoy sauromatae and Makedon much more than Romans when I play Barbarians... Romans are just walking tin can....

**Duguntz** · 05-14-2009, 16:03

TheStranger, my settings are at hard (I used to play very hard for campiang, but I got pissed off of enemies refusing a ceasefire when reduced to one city...) and medium for battle...
I used to play vh - vh... anyway, the campain stopped at the same place... and on everypost, to have a well balanced game, the majority seems to agree on medium for battles... so here am I tying and finding that those walking bucket still kick my ass...

Owen, usually, I pinned them down with my spearmen, and flanked 'em with the slagonez, fired 'em with skujonez and when possible, charge (repeatidly) on their back with light cavalry... but i read the post of cute wolf (by the way cute wolf, thanks a lot for all those tactic infos!) and I see that I greatly underestimated the effectiveness of fear... I didn't built any of those make-up guys (althought I trained some naked fanatics from conquered celtic cities... But don't use them extensively as they die like flies... and of corse, i try most often to wait them in forest... and when I've the chance (very, veeeeery rarely) to fight 'em in a forest the winter, things get easier! a lil bit!

For the elite stack, there are triarii, but mostly pedite extraordinarii and elite saminiti heavy infantry... My poor Duguntiz don't fare well against those, but I'll try strait away all your tips! Thanks, you guys are great! I dunno how to give baloon, but I'd offer one to all of you! lol! (yeah, sound pretty bad not to know how to give a balloon... University takes time! lol!