Steam Ships a bit dissppointing

[Didz]

My Dutch Empire finally got their steam ships and I quickly built a fleet of them to see what they were like, with another under construction.

What a dissappointment. Their first encounter was with a fleet of Spanish 6th rates and trade ships raiding my trade on the Ivory Coast. The two fleets were equal in size but I assumed the difference in firepower 216 v 78 would have made this fight no contest for the Dutch steamers.

How wrong I was....true the Dutch paddle steamers literally ran rings round the Spanish fleet, but they never bothered firing their guns. According to the stats the range of the steamers was 500, which is the same as the 6th rates and most other vessels, but in practice they never fired unless they were virtually on top of the target.

So, what actually transpired reminded me of one of those really bad cowboy movies where the Indian's gallop in circles round the cowboys in the wagon train and get shot to pieces whilst doing nothing useful in return.

When I did manage to get close enough to open fire the results were somewhat unimpressive and I barely managed to scrape a victory losing a couple of ships in the process and having only two still in the fight by the end. The Admiral's flagship even managed to catch itself alight at one point and I'm surprised it managed to survive.

So....interesting experiment but back its back to 5th Rates and 3rd Rates for the Dutch, I like my ships to fire at the enemy, not catch fire to themselves. The entire fleet was scuttled on return to port and all future constuction cancelled.

Might try another limited experiment once I have rifled cannon.

[Oaty]

Did you have chainshot selected? chainshot has a bit shorter range than cannonballs. I'm guessing about 450, not that much less but can make a difference. I've noticed the AI likes to stay out of chainshot range on its first pass or until they lose a ship.

If the range was really short you might have had grapeshot selected.

If not either of those 2 either the description is bugged or the ship itself is in battle

[Didz]

Nope! I've been quite happily using a combination of chainshot and grape to disable and capture the small Maratha Confederacy fleet. In fact, its almost essential when dealing with Dhows otherwise they charge at you like suicide bombers and try to blow up under your flagship. But I was actually being cautious in this battle precisely because I wasn't sure what to expect.

Also when they did fire they seemed to be fiting shot at the hulls, there was no spattering of grape or high flying hits to the masts that I noticed. So, I don't think the fire selection type was bugged. They just seem to have a really low range probably the same as carronade frigates, which was another ship type I tried and abandoned for the same reason.

[Fisherking]

I have always had good results with them.

They have the hull strength of a fifth or sixth rate and damage of a much larger ship. They do run circles around the enemy in most cases. Still they are not third rates and should not be used the same way.

Disable the enemy before closing the same as you would with a frigate.

If you lost any then I guess some of those trade ships were galleons. No Indiaman is bringing down a steamship unless you are just cursed at sea…

And I have never noticed a range differnce.

[Didz]

Well as I said it was the range difference which caused the problems. On the first pass the steamers took broadsides from the entire enemy line without replying once and on turning they inevitably drifted back out of firing range giving the enemy more free hits. I suspect if the rifled cannon give them back a decent range then they might be worth investing in, but at the moment I think a 5th rate is a better investment.

[Fiddling_nero]

Its range is 300 not 500. I just checked in a custom sea battle.

[Didz]

Thats what I figured. Their guns have the same range as carronade frigates, even though the unit stats claim otherwise.

[joe4iz]

I made the same mistake you did. I found them to be pretty worthless.

[Oaty]

Well now that we know they are equipped with carronades they have a whole different purpose. When I played the RTI I used that carronade frigate like crazy til the British sunk it. Because of there firepower I controlled it individually while my ships in line came in and finished the job.

Because of the firepower I'm guessing none of thier cannonballs bounce off the ships making each cannon that much more useful. A carronade frigate can take a fifth rates hull down to 50 percent in 1 shot plus they tend to damage the opposite side of the hull at the same time. just watch as the carronades hit the ship and you'll see some of the cannonballs exiting the otherside.

So use the steamship and run the AI ship line and because it's steam powered run it into the wind to take it to safety while the rest of your fleet mops up.

That was the problem I had with my carronade frigate was it would go in blow wholes in ships and was sunk because of the wind direction couldn't get away from the AI ships in time

[Beskar]

They must have changed the stats or something as I used to have fleets of steamships and they dominated everything.

[Didz]

Possibly...the stats quoted on the unit card clearly state that their guns have a range of 500, the same as most ships including 6th Rates. However, in actual battle they certainly don't fire at the same range as a 6th Rate does, and have to be much closer to their target before they begin. Whether this is a deliberate change or a gliche of some sort is difficult to say, but it puts them at a distinct disadvantage against sailing fleets with longer ranged weapons.

[Fisherking]

This is a recent change then!

more undocumented crap

That would make them worth much less. At that point the trend was toward longer ranges with lighter ships.

42 lb. long toms were pivot mounted on small ships. And here they give us steam carronade ships…

dumb, dumb, dumb!

[Didz]

The other thing I noticed though its harder to verify, is that the manoeuvreability of the steam ships seemed to be worse that the sailing vessels. Which again is contrary to the unit card stats. Mine seemed to have a really poor turning circle which was why they ended up going in circles round the sailing ships, the problem was that because their turning circle was so poor they spent a lot of their time making wide turns which took them out of range of their targets whilst the 6th rates were able to operate on interior lines and blast the hell out of them. As I said earlier 'Red Indian's circling a wagon train sprang to mind at the time.' In the end I found the only real solution was to charge the 6th Rates head on and take the two or three broadsides in order to get in amongst them.

[Fisherking]

The other thing I noticed though its harder to verify, is that the manoeuvreability of the steam ships seemed to be worse that the sailing vessels. Which again is contrary to the unit card stats. Mine seemed to have a really poor turning circle which was why they ended up going in circles round the sailing ships, the problem was that because their turning circle was so poor they spent a lot of their time making wide turns which took them out of range of their targets whilst the 6th rates were able to operate on interior lines and blast the hell out of them. As I said earlier 'Red Indian's circling a wagon train sprang to mind at the time.' In the end I found the only real solution was to charge the 6th Rates head on and take the two or three broadsides in order to get in amongst them.

They do have that problem on the windward side. They always have. I keep meaning to test them without using sails but in battle I just have not done it.

[Skott]

Its a funny thing (in my case) I've never used the steam ships. Once I get 3rd rates I pretty much use them for all the muscle work they work so well. The game AI doesnt usually use anything stronger that I cant take down with a fleet of 3rd rates. I'll have to try some steam ships for myself and see how good/bad they are.

[Fisherking]

You know what?

There seem to be some changes in the ships post-post-patch!

Did anyone notice a new download or check steam to see if there was some hot fix added.

They seem a bit different in battle. The AI has seemingly switched away from galleys and I have noticed some differences moving on the campaign map…

Or is it older and I never noticed?

No, I don’t think so… Its different…