which is the coolest CIVILIZED faction, and why?

[Duguntz]

Hey hey hey, welcome to all EB and history fan! In my last thread, I asked who were the favourite barbarians of everybody and the thread had some success (and I like long conversation on that subject!) But many replied that anyway they prefered the more ''civilised'' factions. I guess that it's for their shining armors and shining mnai that they got A LOT MORE than my so dear sweboz (who never dwindeled in cash nor in history, and SURELY not in my campain!) So here is the new thread :

Who is the best civilised faction, for the best or worse, and why? I cannot answer that question myself, as in the previous thread, becaude I never played a civilised faction... that's what happen when we're fan of barbarian! But I guess that it's a tottaly other challange to play as Rome or KH or Baktria...

So don't be ashame and post!

[Maion Maroneios]

Makedonia. Period. Explanation unnecessary.

Maion

[Ghaust the Moor]

Epirus. or Maybe Baktria. Its kinda a tie for me.

[Atraphoenix]

Petty Pontics they have Hellenic, Persian, Scythian, Celtic units.
I established a ban on nudity that my Celtoi hated that law.
I just converted to play with them after I got bored hit and run, run, run, run, hit, hit , charge tactics of Ashkanians. But I love them both factions. They are both great challenge.

[cezarip]

Romani. Reforms, cool units, you will have to face untold number of enemies before accomplishing the victory conditions. Variety. Cool office traits system!

[Yarema]

My choice would be the Romans of course, not only because they gave birthto the true eropeancivilization (i think the ancient Greek's oriental connections were to strong to make them truly eeopean - no offense to ancient Greeks and theri fans of course).
Seriously now, their units are much more versatile than the clumsy, slow and unflexible phalanx and hoplites (yes, i admit it: i don't like leading phalanx in battle - not that i don't know how to do it, i just find it rather unnerving).

BUT MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL:
The second thing is that the Romans give you a chance to face many different type of armiies and fighting styles in the very beginning: you have those annoing clever-clever Greeks on the south-east, the bloodthirsty barbraric Gauls in the north, and of course those damn insidious liars the Phoenicians in the south-west. If you choose to attack Spain early, you will also face the Lusotana, a mixture of Gallic and Phoenician tactics with excellent light infantry. If you attack Greece, than later you may either choose to expand to asia minor or against the Daco-Getai.

None of the other civilised factions have such a choice - for example Baktria can only fight nomads or Seleucids, the incest dynasty (Hehehe ) can only fight Seleucids or Phoenicians, Koinon Hellenon or Macedon have no other choice but to immediatly begin the fight against other Greeks, and so on. The only type of armies that the Romans can't face in the beginning are the nomads - you can reach thme only after you deal with the knigdom-to-be of Burebista and Decebalus.

So if you want a civilized faction, don't hesitate, choose the Romani, and become a proud Homo Novus like Caius Marius, Acilius Glabrio or Marcus Tullius Cicero!

[Duguntz]

Well i don't know why, but I think you, Maion, are a fan of Makedonia! perhaps living there as well! unfortunatly for makedonians of today (and not of ancient makedonia) they're mostly a part of Bulgaria! (well, i know that they argue so much that they're independant and bla bla bla) and Bulgars say the opposite, a bit the same problem then France and Corsica (no worry, I don't take any position there, I just state fact!)

But isn't all phalanx-based Faction a bit the same? I mean, Mak., Epeiros, KH, (maybe less for KH as they use mostly classical hoplite...) I don't know, as I said, I never played as civilized... I prefer to drink in their skull after my heroic victory, ther destroying everything and put europe back 300 years earlier under the rules of sweboz!

[Skullheadhq]

Heil Makedonia!

[Atraphoenix]

Well i don't know why, but I think you, Maion, are a fan of Makedonia! perhaps living there as well! unfortunatly for makedonians of today (and not of ancient makedonia) they're mostly a part of Bulgaria! (well, i know that they argue so much that they're independant and bla bla bla) and Bulgars say the opposite, a bit the same problem then France and Corsica (no worry, I don't take any position there, I just state fact!)

Modern Makedonia or FYROM just Macedon in name that European nostalgists uses wrongly... If they have any relation I am the last of the mohicans...

[Duguntz]

A name that nostalgist use wrongly? Maybe for the nostalgists, but there is, actually a territory named Macedonia, althouth it have nothing to do with ancient Makedonia...

1. Not the same territory
2. They speak bulgarian (with some tweak in accent and words) not even close to greek
3. they're a different people, once and for all!

Although those differences, officially, they're still macedonians! so the word is used wrongly only depending on the context it is used!

[Atraphoenix]

Believe it or not, Thracian in modern times means a person who lives in European side of Turkey.
Turks still uses original name Thrace, "Trakya" in Turkish (Thrace (Bulgarian: Тракия, Trakiya or "Trakija" or Trakia, Greek: Θράκη, Thráki, Turkish: Trakya) is a historical and geographic area in southeast Europe. Today the name Thrace designates a region spread over southern Bulgaria (Northern Thrace), northeastern Greece (Western Thrace), and European Turkey (Eastern Thrace). Thrace borders on three seas: the Black Sea, the Aegean Sea and the Sea of Marmara. In Turkey, it is also called Rumeli.)

[Zradha Pahlavan]

Bah! Those Greek barbarians could hardly be seen as 'civilized', and don't make me start on the Romans.

[Atraphoenix]

which is the coolest CIVILIZED faction, and why?
CIVILIZED must be omitted or we will have another thread war, trust me..
my coolest "but relatively civilized" factions as I said before Pontos and Ashkhanian.

[Duguntz]

Wow, I didn't know that! I've often been in Bulgaria (my ex gf is bulgarian) and went in the historical area of ancient trakia, where, in small villages, peoples (mostly old persons) still call themselves Trakians!!! i was swimming in extase to be in such a historical world, when we forget all the crappy administration of bulgaria, and the corruption, and we can immerse ourself in what was Makedonia, Trakia, and actually see those hill, still all forested (as construction have been prohibited in osme area) and when, north of a village named Shiroka-Luka, In the Rodopi mountains we see a small Indication saying '' here is born Oedipe'' . I went there dozens of time, just for that lil bit of immersion (well, as well as to see my ex!)

Well sorry, that was out of the thread! lol, I can't stop when I start to talk! But as for the word Trakians used for people living west of Turkey, i didn't know! Only about the part of Bulgaria (as it's obvious!

[Atraphoenix]

so that means it is all relative think about america is it on the east or west?
For a japan it is on the east from here it is on the west ...
so, so long as human survives so does ironies
we are killing the topic BTW..

[Maion Maroneios]

Well i don't know why, but I think you, Maion, are a fan of Makedonia! perhaps living there as well! unfortunatly for makedonians of today (and not of ancient makedonia) they're mostly a part of Bulgaria! (well, i know that they argue so much that they're independant and bla bla bla) and Bulgars say the opposite, a bit the same problem then France and Corsica (no worry, I don't take any position there, I just state fact!)

I am a fan of Makedonia, but I don't live there. I live in Heraklion, Crete, as stated underneath my avatar. And those flaming anti-Roman posts are a joke between me and Satalexton.

Makedonians of today are a part of Bulgaria? That must have been the joke of the week! No, no wait of the entire year! Do you even know where modern-day Bulgarians come from? Most importantly, when they arrived in the Balkans and settled there? After you read this, go and read some about Hellenistic history in general. If you're too bored to do that, you can just check when the Makedones lived and when the Bulgarians came to the Balkans.

And we don't claim independency from anyone. We are a nation, united. Many, many differences from the Ancient Hellenes, that I admit, but the spirit doesn't die with time, as language and customs do. But I don't have anything against Bulgarians, note that.

Modern Makedonia or FYROM just Macedon in name that European nostalgists uses wrongly... If they have any relation I am the last of the mohicans...

Ah, somebody who actually bothers to read some history and cross some facts! Kudos to you sir.

A name that nostalgist use wrongly? Maybe for the nostalgists, but there is, actually a territory named Macedonia, althouth it have nothing to do with ancient Makedonia...

1. Not the same territory
2. They speak bulgarian (with some tweak in accent and words) not even close to greek
3. they're a different people, once and for all!

Although those differences, officially, they're still macedonians! so the word is used wrongly only depending on the context it is used!

I believe we have sme kind of misunderstanding here. When you say Makedonians, you mean FYROMians? Those lads living to the north of the Greek part Macedonia? With Skopje as their capital? I'm sorry, I though you were talking about my brethren, the Hellenes living in the region of Macedonia in Modern Greece. If that's tha case and you refer to FYROMians, I would appreciate it if you don't confuse them with the ancient Makedones. I am Greek, not FYROMian.

Maion

[Atraphoenix]

Maybe you may find it interesting; Ottomans especially converted Makedonian Children to form Janissaries. They were famous warriors as well they were strong and well built.(From a Turkish Historian but forgot the name)
But I must confess it is hard to imagine how sarissa carriers became capped janissaries.
Throughout the history all ethnical (original) Macedonian soldiers were famous warriors. So we should respect them.

[Maion Maroneios]

When the Turks came, Makedonia was long gone. But it's true that people in northern Greece are (still) taller, bigger in built and fairer (in terms of skin and hair/eye colour) than us southernerns I an an Heterogenes (half-blood) actually. My father is a typical example of how a Greek looked like even during Ancient times; short (about 1.69m even though that would be quite tall for that time), black curly hair, tanned skin, quite hairy (as per chest hair, back hair and facial) and a crooked nose. From all those, I only got the black hair (though mine is wavy like my mother's) and the general hairyness (chest hair, facial) My mother is Dutch, with blue eyes and brown, wavy hair. Also, she got lighter skin than my father and is quite taller (round 1.75m). So I guess I got bits of both

But, yet again, I'm getting off-topic it seems...

Maion

[AttilaDerHunn]

Safot Softim biQarthadast is probably the best civilized faction in EB because they have a powerful phalanx unit a strong assault infantry selection and powerful cavalry including elephants the only drawback is they cost too damn much and upkeep is too damn high

[Lysimachos]

Coolest are of course the Seleucids, 'cause they have the coolest units (including the coolest elephants) the coolest colour, the coolest kingdom overall and the coolest ambitions
For more reasons, read my AAR

PS: I don't want to see any more words about anything that happened after the EB-timeframe, not because it wasn't interesting, but because what you guys are doing is a reliable thread-closer...

[Atraphoenix]

Safot Softim biQarthadast is probably the best civilized faction in EB because they have a powerful phalanx unit a strong assault infantry selection and powerful cavalry including elephants the only drawback is they cost too damn much and upkeep is too damn high

African elephants does not deserve to recruit in comparison to Asian ones but both are resource eaters. What must we do, they were "Tiger" Tanks of the ancient times...

[AttilaDerHunn]

African elephants does not deserve to recruit in comparison to Asian ones but both are resource eaters. What must we do, they were "Tiger" Tanks of the ancient times...

I agree and supposedly Carthage recruited these from deeper into the African continent with mahouts of the nationality who tamed them I wonder how they could be recruited in Carthage and most of northern Africa.......probably came pre-ordered

[anubis88]

I agree and supposedly Carthage recruited these from deeper into the African continent with mahouts of the nationality who tamed them I wonder how they could be recruited in Carthage and most of northern Africa.......probably came pre-ordered

The forest elephants actually lived in north africa, not too far inland

The coolest factions in my opinion are AS, SSKH, and Pontos

[Vilkku92]

The coolest "civilized" faction in my opinion is Koinon Hellenon, beacuse THEY HAVE SPARTA!

[Apázlinemjó]

KH - BG, Spartan and of course Classical hoplites.
Romans - Reforms, awesome infantry units, versatile enemies.
Pontos - Great challenge without blitzing, versatile units, good position to make a Romani like empire.

I think they are the coolest ones, but if I have to pick one, then it's Pontos.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

But Makedonia is not a "Civilized" faction. They are a bunch of drunken and inbred barbarians from the North who cannot read .

KH, forward!

[Gabeed]

I'd probably have to go with the Ptolemies.

[HunGeneral]

Now this is a hard question.

I think several civilised factions fall very close to the tittle "most coolest". My candidates would be:

Romani: everything which has been said about them sofar.

Arche Seleukeia: My all-time favourite. They have great units and later on they get even better ones after the reforms. They have one of the best goverment buildups of all (Type 1 goverments in Antiocheia, Seleukeia, Babylon pluss Pella, Alexandria and Baktra - simply amazing.) If they are not the true heirs of Megas Alexandros then I couldn't know who is (besides Makedon - further down). For me they are the ideal faction to reunite Alexanders empire. The only problem they have is that they face a very complicated situtation - all thoose would like to be someones to the north, the treacherous Baktrians to the east, thoose inbred "would like to be Pharaos" in Alexandria, the other Makedons and a divided Hellas to the west... Once all of them have been pacified and brought under the rule of the Basileus ton Basileon (King of Kings - Maion have I written this right?) , then all lands and sees from the Indus to the Atlantic can be aded to the "" (Empire/ Great Kingdom of all Hellenes - a little help please)* If the gods wish it so...

Baktria: Another of the Diadochi - nice units selection - they seem ideal to rule from the Indus to the shores of Asia Minor. Atlast I couldn't imagine them making a foothold in Hellas. Aigyptos itself seems rather strange under Baktrian-blue banners (not that it woud be impossible but I somehow find it strange). There early battles are however really a material for legends - AS stack spam to the west, Pahlav horsemen to the West-East, large Eleutheroi garisons in India and the worst of all - HORDES OF SAKA HORSEMEN to the north....

Karthadast: ("SafotSoftimbiQuarthadast"): well isolated at the beginning, can get good regionals from many places, has great factional units. - Is there anything else to say?

Makedonia: The true Makedones and lords of Hellas (after they conquer it from the pesky Koinon, and Epeiros). After that they can start wiping the Romani of the map and once thats done its time to reunite Alexanders empire. The only reason why they are behind AS in my list is that they lack mobile troops like Thorakitai. However they are very close to first class Thrakian troopers and there cavalry is aswell superb.

I would also add Epeiros but I don't have much experience with them - I sispect training Elephants in there Capital can be great and they have many units like Makedon (pluss Thorakitai) and lets not forget that Phyrros is the best starting Faction Leader and his son Ptolemais is an Heir with great Potential

[Duguntz]

Sorry guys for having talked out of subject earlier! Yeah, i love to learn and I learned full of new things in that ''out-of-timeframe'' conversation, Maion and Athaphoenix, are realy interesting guys!

So hmmm, Apart of Rome (for those who consider it civilized) nono, that was just a joke to tickle Rome fans! Well, appart from rome, all ''more'' civilized faction seems to be phalanx based... (yeah, I guess... why to change a tactics wich have worked for over 1000 years,...) anyway playing as AS or Ptolies, don't they have a bit the same recruitement pool?

The Romans seems very nice, but I have so much fun to crush their bones with my rudimentery sweboz and their clubs that the Barbarian in me shout ALLLLL BUT THEM!!!

[Nachtmeister]

Koinon Hellenon - although I must admit that this is rather related to the pre-EB timeframe
Sab'Yn - the most interesting (and challenging) campaign, sandwiched between AS and Ptolemaioi...