AI needs to build more ships of the line

[Marquis of Roland]

Before the patch, I saw at least some small fleets of 2nd rates roaming around. Nowadays I hardly see a ship of the line at all. In my GB campaign, its 1799 and I think the whole time I fought 2 third rates (separately) and 3 fourth rates (also separately). I'm playing on hard difficulty, does the AI spawn more ships on VH? At any rate, I hope they change some build priorities around or something for the next patch, I'm tired of seeing trash fleets.

[joe4iz]

Same here.

I seldom see any fleets of anybody at all. Most of those fleets that I do see are all Indiamen or some such traderships.

I had no problem now when someone declares war on me as I control all of the shipping lanes. I appear to be the only one who can field any real navy and army at the same time.

[anweRU]

I've seen one full stack French fleet in about 1715 (still hanging out in Norht American waters in 1742), and a full stack of Swedish ships in the East Indies theater ~ 1740. However, these were all made of at best 5th rates.

I faced two Swedish fourth rates in another stack (of five ships) and a French fourth rate (of two ships) in the 1730s...

I am pretty sure the AI is suffering from the not-enough-money syndrome (being discussed in Slaists' thread on VH being too easy...). It can't build the higher level shipyards, and couldn't afford to build the better ships if it did.

Of course, I'm evil, and have let the large AI naval stacks rot on the high seas... If I destroyed them, the AI would have 2-3K freed up..

[Mr Frost]

The A.I. needs to be inclined to disband obsolete units .
This is the 5th T.W. not counting the expansions and only in the first one did it not matter much ; they should have made it a standard feature long ago !

[Oaty]

They should make a limit on how many ships of the lower class you can have

[joe4iz]

They should make a limit on how many ships of the lower class you can have

I have to disagree with you on that. I use smaller ships to fill out my fleets now that the patch has made making money harder. If the AI is limited, then you are limited also. Besides, would this then limit the amount of Indiamen that you could produce also? Early game, small fleets is all you can afford.

The problem is in the attempt to make the game more challenging, the latest patch has caused all parties but the player to remain poor. The player starts with the same disadvantages (or worse) but eventually works his/her way out of it.

A disband "check" by the AI would be better.

[Marquis of Roland]

The AI will build the naval hospital but they never build steam drydocks, therefore the largest ship they can build are 2nd rates. The reason the AI never builds it is because naval hospitals are available first so they build those as soon as they can, which means they can't build steam drydock. Even with new ports emerging, the AI usually builds a useless fishery. If CA made the AI convert at least 1 naval drydock into the steam drydock, then make the AI navy strat more aggressive, that'll be great. Watch though, the minute they do this you're gonna have people playing trading factions complain about AI navy being too aggressive.

[AussieGiant]

The AI will build the naval hospital but they never build steam drydocks, therefore the largest ship they can build are 2nd rates. The reason the AI never builds it is because naval hospitals are available first so they build those as soon as they can, which means they can't build steam drydock. Even with new ports emerging, the AI usually builds a useless fishery. If CA made the AI convert at least 1 naval drydock into the steam drydock, then make the AI navy strat more aggressive, that'll be great. Watch though, the minute they do this you're gonna have people playing trading factions complain about AI navy being too aggressive.

I fully expect this to happen Marquis of Roland!!

People here will be screaming like little girls in a play ground full of snakes!! I wanted to say something else here but I'm sure I would be reported

[Fisherking]

Isn’t it obvious that there are less SOLs because the upkeep has gone so high?

The only SOLs I have encountered have been 4th rates with maybe one 2nd rate in a French fleet, and none post patch 1.2.

The only time I encountered stronger ships was in the RTI.

Post patch if the fleets are not what they started with, the AI is attacking with stacks of Indiamen. This is good for your trade possibilities but they are not exactly a challenge to your ships.

I had an encounter with an eight ship fleet. I had one 3rd rate and I sunk or captured the whole thing.

My last battle at sea was a Danish fleet of five Indiamen vs. a 5th rate, a brig, a sloop, and two light galleys. I got 5 Indiamen and didn’t loose a ship.

As to aggressiveness, my only problem is the way the AI declares war. Once at war then it is a little silly to complain when the AI bests you. It doesn’t happen much post patch even when you are at war with six or seven factions at once. They usually don’t have any troops or ships.


I don’t think it is a good idea to require the AI to build this or that. I would hope it knows what it can do with the recourses at hand.

[Marquis of Roland]

Isn’t it obvious that there are less SOLs because the upkeep has gone so high?

I gave the French and Spanish 500,000 each about 15 or 16 turns ago, still no SOLs, and both of them have naval hospitals. Around 8 turns after I gave them the money, the French built a new 5th rate and 2 sixth rates. Sounds like they need to change their build priorities to me.

[Skott]

Yeah, the AI doesnt do much when it comes to upgrading its fleets. Be careful what you ask for though. CA may tweak it too much and have the AI spam 3rd rates and on up.

[Marquis of Roland]

That is what I want, my fleets need more xp

[Slaists]

Isn’t it obvious that there are less SOLs because the upkeep has gone so high?

The only SOLs I have encountered have been 4th rates with maybe one 2nd rate in a French fleet, and none post patch 1.2.

The only time I encountered stronger ships was in the RTI.

Post patch if the fleets are not what they started with, the AI is attacking with stacks of Indiamen. This is good for your trade possibilities but they are not exactly a challenge to your ships.

I had an encounter with an eight ship fleet. I had one 3rd rate and I sunk or captured the whole thing.

My last battle at sea was a Danish fleet of five Indiamen vs. a 5th rate, a brig, a sloop, and two light galleys. I got 5 Indiamen and didn’t loose a ship.

As to aggressiveness, my only problem is the way the AI declares war. Once at war then it is a little silly to complain when the AI bests you. It doesn’t happen much post patch even when you are at war with six or seven factions at once. They usually don’t have any troops or ships.


I don’t think it is a good idea to require the AI to build this or that. I would hope it knows what it can do with the recourses at hand.

Well, I find it rather realistic: one or two top-line ships per fleet, the others being lesser quality. That's pretty much how I structure my fleets too (maybe that's the reason I end up with so much cash in the end-game).

[Marquis of Roland]

No, ships of the line fought separate from other types of ships because the other ships weren't strong enough to stand in a line of battle. Historically.

[Slaists]

No, ships of the line fought separate from other types of ships because the other ships weren't strong enough to stand in a line of battle. Historically.

There are 4 different classes of ships of line in the game: 4th, 3rd, 2nd, and 1st. I'd have a couple 2nd rates, and a mix of the lower line classes in my fleet.

1st class? Never built one actually. That tech simply comes too late for me to be of any use... So, I guess, I am like the AI in that sense, lol. Naval hospitals are the top dockyards in my game, lol.

[anweRU]

If you haven't done so at all so far, you should build a steam dockyard, then order a first rate and a steamship. You'll get two event messages, first 1st rate built and first steamship build events...

[LuxIrae]

Playing as Netherlands on Hardest setting I have had no problem with opponents turning up undergunned in naval battles. I was investing heavily in trade tech and trade fleet, when suddenly Spain and France declared war with massive fleets of 2nd rates sweeping my anti piracy frigates from the seas in short order! Suddenly my home port was blockaded and I was facing economic annihilation... and little ship building capacity to respond!

[Fisherking]

Playing as Netherlands on Hardest setting I have had no problem with opponents turning up undergunned in naval battles. I was investing heavily in trade tech and trade fleet, when suddenly Spain and France declared war with massive fleets of 2nd rates sweeping my anti piracy frigates from the seas in short order! Suddenly my home port was blockaded and I was facing economic annihilation... and little ship building capacity to respond!

When the AI has the cash I am sure they will spend it on good ships.

I would rather not see any scripting of who builds what.

Your game sounds interesting, if not exactly fun.

Did you find a way to deal with the situation?

[LuxIrae]

Experience from my most recent game suggests that the AI builds top of the line naval units relatively quickly on the higher levels, which would match up with your theory about having he cash Fisherking.

Game still not won, but starting to look promising. Sudden naval assault by France and Spain was beaten (they are both now gone as are all their former colonies) by brutal crisis management. Peace was made everywhere else and some of my territories were traded for peace or alliance. Every uneccessary army (regardless of quality) was disbanded, taxes were raised briefly and a short sharp focused assault destroyed them both on land. Had to give France away to a protectorate so that the
single truly powerful army I could afford with the blockade in place could go on to destroy Spain too.

Once I got over the panic of seeing my 30k surplus turn into a 30k defecit it was actually the most fun game of Empire I have played...