Catholic Church in deeep water.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Since this scandal "broke" a few years ago, and the sadly long history of covering up abuses was exposed, Holy Mother Church -- and particularly the dioceses in the USA -- have gone to significant lengths to adopt the oversight policies and attitudes for which so many of you are calling.

Sadly, as with any large bureaucratic organization, the tendency for issues of concern to be "hushed up" or meaningful reform slowed or neutered by red tape is also present in the Church.


As a conservative, I'd be ecstatic if the level of incisive criticism leveled (with some good reason I admit) at the Catholic Church were aimed at any number of bloated bureacracies that need reform. I can think of a few departments in the USG could do with some heavy pruning -- oh, but that' the government, so we know it is always working for our best interests....


Please, those of you who are on about the married priests thing again, check your reasoning. There is ZERO data indicating that sexual frustration leads to pedophilia. There is, as far as I am aware, not even a correlational connection, much less a causal one. A priest having the chance to get his yaks milked will have no bearing on this issue.

[Askthepizzaguy]

As a conservative, I'd be ecstatic if the level of incisive criticism leveled (with some good reason I admit) at the Catholic Church were aimed at any number of bloated bureacracies that need reform.

Does this mean I have not demonstrated my extreme dislike for the United States government, or any other global organization with extreme levels of corruption, or my distrust of huge organizations to begin with?

I'd better roll up my sleeves. Group mentality and group guilt and the ability of a large group to defend itself very easily from a smaller group allows not only strength in numbers but also allows people to feel secure and safe enough to commit crimes they would never consider doing on their own. I believe there have been a rather large amount of sociological studies which demonstrate how people in groups behave much, much more unethically than lone individuals, even to the point where peer pressure alone can cause people to give answers to simple questions which they know are dead wrong. I wish I had the data in front of me to share, but I just watched one of these studies on an educational channel on TV, and read about such studies constantly in various newspapers and other media. In large groups, people behave badly, and people can be more easily pressured into acting without shame.

Fear not Seamus, I have a great loathing for any large group. In the end, they all ultimately become a bunch of bullies. That is why I am not a member of any group, or if I am (such as this forum) I am a casual member who retains his independence to an annoying and frustrating degree. Groups, to be honest, tend to behave poorly towards anyone not in that group. I hate groups.

[Adrian II]

As a conservative, I'd be ecstatic if the level of incisive criticism leveled (with some good reason I admit) at the Catholic Church were aimed at any number of bloated bureacracies that need reform.

As a closet socialist I whole-heartedly agree. The worst example of child abuse in living memory must be Romania's orphanages, set up by the communist Ceaucescu government. All political or religious denominations and establishments are prone to moral decay if left unchecked. This conclusion does not exonerate the Catholic clergy (in many nations, not just in Ireland), but it puts the whole thing in the proper perspective.