Emerging faction idea

[TancredTheNorman]

Hmm... this was using 1 slot as waste... but this Judean faction will be better represented if we pick them at the start as Seleucid's Protectorate... (And then rebelled as Baktria)

Perhaps Hooahguy can help us...

According to Wikipedia:



That means that we couldn't use Maccabeid family as the Starting FM's (But then, we could use script to spawn them, and use "Teutonic"ish republican system instead)



So, we can start out their favor with seleucid low, and give them tendency to lean into Ptolemaic side... Or, we could simply use "Forbidden Warning" for Seleukid Players, that they shouldn't build ANY TEMPLE.. in the area near Hierosolyma (Jerusalem), Tsidon, and Gaza... or The Jews will rebel, and allied themself with Ptolemies...
Ptolemies should got the same message too... they shouldn't build ANY TEMPLE in this 3 province, or the Jews will Rebel...



That Judean faction should have perhaps some units that resembling a crossbreed between ambushing tactics (like the Iberians), and perhaps some hellenistic phalanx for holding the line, but they shouldn't get any pezhetairoi and up... (Klerouchikoi Phalangitai and Pantodapoi is ok)



That means that the Jewish FM's should have some "Disloyal effect" therefore forcing the player to grow a high authority Faction Leader...


The Proposed Army
Infantry:
-> Iudaioi Taxeis : Their primary rank and file units, as well as their lowest unit in their native MIC, their recruitment could be more widespread (or even ties only to building), so they could support more army...
-> Pantodapoi Phalangitai: They use this phalanx army for self defense against diadochian Phalanx army, for some of them must be observed diadochian drill...
-> Klerouchikoi Phalangitai: Enrolled from the Hellenistic Jews as well, they provide better phalanx army for the Jews... (at least they didn't get slaughtered wholesale against argyraspides)
-> Bnei Shevet Aravim: Well, the jews must allready used some tribal Arab levies as mercs, and javelinmen against phalanx force.
-> Aithiophikoi Machairophoroi: this unit info directly implied that some ethiophian are Jews, Ethiophian swordsmen will give them a swordsmen unit
-> Hanaatim Kushim: this was implied as Ethiophian spearmen, some are jews too..
-> Aithiophikoi Toxotai: Ethiophian archers..... Jes got more AOR for Ethiophian troops
-> Giusim Aravim Tsophonim: Arabian archer-spearmen are always handy
-> Nizagan-i Eranshar: When the jews exiled in babylon, no doubt they will value this light troops that comprises bulk of the Persian army
-> Kardaka Arthenshar: This was a good Persian troops... recruitable in eastern side of maps, when they conquer them...
-> Shipri Tukul: Better version of the Persian influenced men... could be recruited in Hierosolyma because their description implies they fought in Persian influenced nature, not persian themself...
-> Iudaioi Sphendonitai: Supperior version of slingers... In the Bible, the Jews has a really good sling troops, so perhaps they could be used..
-> Iudaioi Zealots: A really tough melee infantry, only lightly armoured, and carry just swords... but they should have frightening abilities and 2 Hp like Gaesatae... Call them Gaesatae in proper clothing...
-> Galatikoi Kluddolon: These Galatian troops are recruitable too...
-> Qalaim Aravim: Inferior version of slingers, drawn from Arabs
-> Gund-i Palta: Well, what about this troops?
-> Misteret Ezrahim.... Maybe you'll ask, why I propose this Kart-Hadast militia? Maybe they should be renamed as "Semitic Militia Hoplites?"
-> Toxotai Syriakoi: they are lived near them, why don't use them?
-> Thureophoroi: Well, there was lot of Hellenic influence here
-> Machimoi: Egyptians could easily join Jewish religion
-> Machimoi Phalangitai: same reason
-> Machimoi Pelekephoroi: Assault infantry made of Egyptians wielding axes (Viva mummy returns Vanilla axemen....)
-> perhaps this was too much?

Cavalry:
-> Parasim Ezrahim Ponnim: Recruitable in Tsidon
-> Aithiophikoi Hippeis: Ethiophian in cavalry version...
-> Machimoi Hippeis: Egyptian in cavalry version...
-> Asiatikoi Hippeis
-> Asabaran-i Madean
-> Maybe some sort of Chariot archers (name them Merkava): Chariots are often mentioned in the Bible
-> no other minda bout cavalry...
-> Pilei Yaar Libim: Well, they should got acess for this Elephant

Bodyguards:
-> Zealot Bodyguards: 40 men 2 Hp Freaks.... but if u mind their over strength
-> Cavalry BG, perhaps Iudaioi Strategoi? (use Somatophylakes strategou model?), or Chariot BGs

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They should start with 1 settlement, Jerusalem, and had a fairly small, but tough army of Zealots...

Perhaps this may help... but I think about a better presentation could be made from real Jew...

I am without doubt impressed

But if there will be no emerging factions then it is a pitty, although on this matter I am wondering just how Egypt will be prevented from conquerin the world?

I had too much fun and spent way too much time on RTW (infact much more then I ever spent on MTW2, I am proud of not repeating the time mistakes ) which is what makes me concerned, because no matter how many campaign attempts, no matter which Roman faction I picked relatively quickly all there was would be Egypt, and sometimes a couple of overly agressive and stupidly proud Pontus provinces, and sometimes the Senate requested I take the only province the Selucids had left.

So this idea wasn't just a bring up the obvious, just an idea, since inevitably the two I assume clashed over Judea, and if the two have a titanic clash there, and the Selucids lose with the Egyptians taking what I assumed where very heavy casualties, the Judeans suddenly emerging to challenge them would give everyone a fighting chance.

I actually once playing as the Jullii refused all Senate Missions East, and ended up fighting Egypt only, with Egypt controlling all non Roman portions of the world.

[eddy_purpus]

Why dont you EB guys try to do what the DoTs team is gonna do with all those "alliances" like the kalmar union ...
?



I think it sounds wonderfull !

[antisocialmunky]

What exactly are they supposed to do after they rebel though? Sit around/civil war until someone desides to finally conquer them and then evict them for being annoying?

[Cute Wolf]

Let's wait EB 2 Relased, and making submod about Judea (By kicking an sightly unimportant faction.... (oops) such as ............ (fill with an EB 2 faction who'll act like Scotland in M2TW)

[Marcus Ulpius]

Macabean faction would be an interesting idea. If it would make its way into EB II, I'd gladly try that campaign, but it would be nigh-impossible to succeed with that faction. Not only it is squeezed between 2 superpowers, it's also very near core recruitment centers of those superpowers. Not like Pahlava or Saka, who have to fight lots of Pantodatoi before better Sele troops reach them, Ioudoi (sp) would have to fight best Ptolie/AS troops from the start. Second thing is that Judea did not have any ambitions of expanding and conquest. The value of the faction that would just sit in one region, waiting to be conquered is not that great. But if EB is an alternative history, then - why not?

[Celtic_Punk]

Let's wait EB 2 Relased, and making submod about Judea (By kicking an sightly unimportant faction.... (oops) such as ............ (fill with an EB 2 faction who'll act like Scotland in M2TW)

scotland kicks ass.. my cousin plays M2TW and the campaigns i've seen scotland lasts either forever or does real damage on england. getting rid of scotland would be retarded.

[Cute Wolf]

hey.. if that's the case of Britannia campaign, that's true when the scots start as second largest, and most advantageous position against england... but I talk about the M2TW Imperial campaign, and Scotland starts with just Edinburgh.... No.. I talk about When I play NOT as England (In case any human player play as England, Scots will be Blitzed without mercy...)...... The scots become the most "Retarded" faction... never expand much, and usually getting killed before 1150... Only in one occasion (when not play as Scots himself), the Scots kick england.... but it was only because french troops blitz england on his southern border....

One-province faction should start with better miliraty terms, especially when the dumb AI use them, and they has a very - very bad neighbour (s)...... Pontos and Hai are in better position (EB), because AS troops was somewhat rare in asia minor, but England in M2TW... think again... that's why I use Scots as example...

EDIT: except your cousins play england, roleplay to let Scots grow first, and decide to kick french ass first... Scots highland nobles kill like crazy against infantry.... and they have earlier pike troops to rid english cav... If they grows (or helped to grow), sure they will do real damage, or even wipe english out...

[Markus_Aurelius]

In my oppinion, the scottish are in a better position then your precious judea faction, at least the Scots are somewhat conqueror minded

[bobbin]

But if there will be no emerging factions then it is a pitty, although on this matter I am wondering just how Egypt will be prevented from conquerin the world?

Its all about balancing, the Ptolemaioi didn't always conquer everything, in older versions of EB it was the the Seleukids that usually ended up massive (they still do in a fair amount of my games). Also from what I've read the Sabeans are getting beefed up in EBII so they will probably be able to prevent the Ptolemaioi getting too strong.

Also being on M2TW:K will help a lot, factions steamrolling the map is a lot less common in that game.

The main reason emerging factions are not in is because you can't play them so it would be a lot of effort (and the EB team put in a LOT of effort) going into a faction that no one will be able to play.

[Cute Wolf]

Hmmm.... I talk about makin an EB 2 Submod..... not influencing main EB 2 itself...... (And to made this faction playable, I think the best way is giving them Protectorate status with AS as their overlord....)

The main EB 2 itself should be left unmolested.... maybe we can kick one of Pergamon, Syrakousai, or Kyrene in this submod

[Alsatia]

I thought Emerging factions were discarded....

If Judea is to exist, then it would be like Kyrene, trapped between two powers..

[Hooahguy]

as i wrote Cute Wolf, theres another problem with a Judaea faction:
there werent uniform units. there wasnt a standing army for them back then. the king called up all men of eligible age at time of war from the 12 tribes. it was basically a uniform rabble of men.

[Andy1984]

Such a faction, placed between two superpowers, would be like a Saba-Campaign. Only difference is: you'll have far less time to prepare for the inavoidable clash. Given the inherent weak economy of a one-province faction for the player, you'd be forced to go into the offensive from the start, which would make your campaign unrealistic.

But feel free to work this idea out if you like to,

Andy

[artaxerxes]

I really don't get why people want Judea included. Even if we add them as an ally of Seleucids or Ptolemies at the beginning, that makes No Sense to me. Then perhaps Persepolis and Sardis should also be allies of the Seleucids??? Judea wasn't an ally, it was a subjugated territory, just like any other province. Using the idea that "the province later revolted/tried to revolt", every province in the game except capitols should be independent factions just allied to the main faction (and that would be as useless as it would be impossible)

Also, Judea is possibly the ONE PROVINCE in the entire game THAT IS BEST represented by the Eleutheroi: the jews PRECISELY DIDN'T attempt any conquest outside of their immediate territory after establishing their independence, making the Eleutheroi just perfect... I'd say more or less 75% of all other Eleutheroi provinces in EB is more deserving of being elevated to an actual faction - i.e. they were historically more expansionist than Judea. ;)
Also, Eleutheroi can easily fulfill the historical events of the area: they were never a third player equal in power/ambition to the Seleucids or Ptolemies in their prime, and even when these 2 empires were weakened, the Jews merely survived because of this weakness in their neighbours, more than because of any massive strength themselves. So, sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but I simply cannot understand this urge to include Judea.