Wall Combat

**Drewski** · 05-22-2009, 22:42

Originally Posted by Frontline1944

Would it be possible to somehow remove the spear completely? I suffer from the same situation when using my Dacian Agema Orditon.

Oh, and Drewski, try simply right-clicking (not alt right-clicking). For some reason, those type of units will switch to their swords (not all of them, though, and eventually some of them will resort back to the spear) when just right-clicking.

Its pretty straightforward to remove the spear, but they'd miss it when fighting horses...

I thought I'd tried all manner of clicking combos...will have to try your idea next time and check the results..

**gamerdude873** · 05-22-2009, 22:58

wouldn't it just be easier to mod the edu file (or whatever it is) to place the spear as primary? and in the case of the dacian spearmen or classical hoplitai, give them a backup sword? It would at least solve the headache...

btw, how would one go about adding another secondary weapon for a unit? Isn't there some sort of unit editor program out there?

**Maion Maroneios** · 05-22-2009, 22:59

Apparently, doing that messes with the unit's model. Don't try it, it really messes up things.

Maion

**DaciaJC** · 05-23-2009, 00:41

Indeed, I tried that myself. I'm glad I made a backup of all the relevant files.

Drewski: do units gain a bonus when fighting cavalry with a spear as opposed to a sword? Your sentence seems to convey that message.

**Watchman** · 05-23-2009, 00:54

Yes. Doesn't everyone know that ?

Also gives the unit extra "pushing power" above and beyond its soldier mass attribute, which I'd imagine is useful in wall fights since it ought to increase the number of foes falling to their doom.

**DaciaJC** · 05-23-2009, 01:09

There are plenty of things I have yet to learn about this game. I had thought that units classified as "spear" get the bonus, not just the spears themselves.

**Drewski** · 05-23-2009, 01:18

Originally Posted by Frontline1944

Indeed, I tried that myself. I'm glad I made a backup of all the relevant files.

Drewski: do units gain a bonus when fighting cavalry with a spear as opposed to a sword? Your sentence seems to convey that message.

+8 to Defence, so they will theoretically take less casualties. BUT it depends upon the type of cavalry.

e.g. In the case of Hypis, once the cavalry have engaged, if you swop them to swords, they may actually kill the Cavalry faster because of the lethality, and hence take less casualties by using swords, that being if said Cavalry have low armor/defence...If the Cavalry are very heavily armoured, but have lowish melee attack, then using the spears (and having the Hypis on Defend mode) may result in lower casualties.

**Watchman** · 05-23-2009, 01:23

Although, just for the record, I for one am quite unsure of the exact effects of the two spear attributes (other than that spear has some rather ridiculous side effects), as in systematic testing their performance didn't nearly match estimates...

**Aemilius Paulus** · 05-23-2009, 02:19

Originally Posted by Drewski

+8 to Defence, so they will theoretically take less casualties. BUT it depends upon the type of cavalry.

e.g. In the case of Hypis, once the cavalry have engaged, if you swop them to swords, they may actually kill the Cavalry faster because of the lethality, and hence take less casualties by using swords, that being if said Cavalry have low armor/defence...If the Cavalry are very heavily armoured, but have lowish melee attack, then using the spears (and having the Hypis on Defend mode) may result in lower casualties.

Yeah, it does depend on many factors, as Drewski observantly noted. For instance, fighting as the Romani in the Mesopotamia, Pahlava and Hai territories, I found that my numerous contingents of Pedites Extraordianrii were the most effective troops versus those dreaded cataphracts. Their AP swords, even with low lethality, chopped those Hai cataphracts as if they were Pantadapoi. I am not even exaggerating. Those catas lasted no longer than Pantadapoi. That is because their defence is almost solely based on armour, with only 8 defence skill I believe, and no shield. They are also mounted units, and mounted units always die faster for some reason than equivalent foot units.

But anyway, my Triarii would take either 40-70% casualties gainsay those cataphracts or even lose. Pedites Extraordianrii usually lost less than ten (large unit scale) and no more than fifteen. ALWAYS use AP infantry against heavily armoured units. AP is the single most powerful bonus in RTW. However, using PEs against low armour units is a waste, especially given the low lethality of their kopis (.11 - lower than the worst spears)

**A Terribly Harmful Name** · 05-23-2009, 04:29

AP is surely the most overpowered feature in RTW. I doubt that any curved sword design like that, or indeed anything short of a rhomphaia or certain axes would go through lamellar that easily. I would be eager to know if some accurate tests were done with this.