Gymnitai Hoplitai- Naked hoplites!!!

[ARCHIPPOS]

A. Greek vase Depictions of archaic period




B. Greek vase depictions of classical-(and/or hellenistic periods???)...






C.Depictions of hoplites in the Elgin marbles (metope panels of Parthenon) classical period...


check also these (couldn't attach them!) http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbrown79/2254993586/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/costi-londra/1402470779/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/foamfresh/1370209304/

D.various other statue depictions



so we see it was not uncommon for greeks to march into battle naked-equiped only with their Hoplon(=shield) , spear and helmet... kind of makes sense- body armour was an expensive luxurious piece of equipment for a large part of the least prosperous soldier citizens who might not afford it OR some hoplites valued convenience and ease over safety during those stiffling summer battles...

my question is this: Is it possible that this tradition of fighting nakedness persisted and was still around 270 BC??? I know it is logical to assume that entire units of naked hoplites never exhisted (never historically described) and rather SOME hoplites in an entire phallanx would fight naked (hoplite appearance was rarely uniform and homogeneous after all)... HOWEVER!!! is it possible to assume that some guys chose to still fight naked around 270 BC forming a poorer/lighter branch-version of their hoplite brethren???(perhaps even as response against the peltast threat-sth like ekdromoi only cheaper???) IF SO !!! could you please ,please, please consider making them avalaible for some greek factions (or even exclusively to KH???) ... i know you guys are really focused on accurate historical depiction and so if your answer is no,no,no and no i totaly understand that being so true to history is THE main reason that makes this mod so uniquely amazing (no roman arcanii bullshit and stuff) ... so there ... cheers and thanx for your time!!!

(the true reason behind this thread is of course the naked wildmen-those guys are pure butch manliness and possible the coolest unit around in EB-i need a greek equivalent of those crazy SOBs!!!)

[Zett]

so we see it was not uncommon for greeks to march into battle naked-equiped only with their Hoplon(=shield) , spear and helmet... kind of makes sense- body armour was an expensive luxurious piece of equipment for a large part of the least prosperous soldier citizens who might not afford it OR some hoplites valued convenience and ease over safety during those stiffling summer battles...

I hope you know, that there is a difference between art and reality. Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam.

[luke_liddle]

Greek art depicted soldiers fighting naked as this was considered heroic. The reality was completely different. I dont think Greeks ever fought naked.

[Tellos Athenaios]

And from Art history we learn that idealized humans are often depicted naked. Heroic people are depicted naked. (Incidentally quite a few of the vase paintings depict scenes from the Illiad.) People who exemplify human beauty are depicted naked.

[Aemilius Paulus]

OMG. I still remember that thread about nudity in hoplite warfare with ByzantinePrince. Wayyy back in the very beginning of this sub-forum. I am currently looking for it to give you guys a link. Read it before you say anything else. Very useful.

Oh, and this too. Another thread, also form the very beginning on this topic.


Tellos, help me out here . You may know the thread I am speaking of, although I did not see you that early in this forum.

[Maion Maroneios]

I remember I once read a book entitled "Πολεμος στην Αρχαια Ελλαδα", meaning "Warfare in Ancient Greece". It talked about the Gymnitai Hoplitai, or "Naked Hoplites", presenting some sources of them actually fighting in battles as religious fanatics or something.

Maion

[Hax]

WARNING: LARGE PICTURE

http://ftp.ccccd.edu/andrade/WorldLi...so.avignon.jpg

"The Intergalactic Foundation,

Dear friends, the human race has developed over the last thousand years. As you can clearly see, no more than a thousand years ago the race of man used to have strange sharply pointed angles in their skin. We currently do not know how they reproduced, as they are clearly missing primary reproduction organs. Some humans were born with a rare disease which caused their face to permanently tilt one way"

So art tells everything about how people look like or did? Riiiiiiight.

[Maion Maroneios]

So art tells everything about how people look like or did? Riiiiiiight.

No, but that is no reason to completely reject something because it is depicted on a vase. Oh, and for those that may have misunderstood my post; I'm not demanding the EB team include naked hoplites. If they were used, they were probably very insignificant to be included as a unique unit.

Maion

[Aemilius Paulus]

Guys, read that thread from the link I posted. This discussion is a mere repetition.