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Thread: War can be hell...

  1. #1
    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Default War can be hell...

    not to mention danged inconvenient. Maybe they'll come up with a new medal, "The Order of the Pink Boxer" with Red Heart cluster for intrepid vigilance in the face of the enemy.
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    By DAVID BAUDER, AP Television Writer David Bauder, Ap Television Writer – Fri May 22, 3:16 pm ET
    NEW YORK – An Associated Press picture of a soldier in his pink boxers has become an iconic image of the war in Afghanistan, but at the moment it was taken, wardrobe was the last thing on the minds of the fighter and photographer.
    "Like them, I was thinking about the situation — where was it safe and where was it safe to work," said David Guttenfelder, photographer for the AP, who was embedded with a U.S. Army unit in the Korengal Valley when a firefight broke out on May 11.
    U.S. Army Specialist Zachary Boyd leapt from his sleeping quarters and grabbed his helmet, vest and rifle — but not his pants — and took his station behind sandbags.
    Guttenfelder's photo made newspaper front pages the next day, including The New York Times and Boyd's hometown Star-Telegram in Fort Worth, Texas. It elicited an immediate smile, but also symbolized the dedication of those fighting in Afghanistan. It put a human face, or backside, on what can seem an anonymous conflict.
    At least initially, the soldiers were worried the photo would make them look bad, Guttenfelder said. But Firebase Restrepo, on a steep mountainside where soldiers are on constant lookout for Taliban fighters, isn't a place for formality: Uniforms have holes in them, and some men wear flea collars because of bugs in their beds, he said.
    Boyd called his parents at 12:30 a.m., Fort Worth time, to warn them about the photo. He was legitimately worried about losing his job, said his mother, Sheree Boyd.
    Her husband, Tommy, immediately got on the computer to find the photo and roared with laughter, she said. The boxers were emblazoned with "I Love NY."
    "We thought it was such a funny picture but so typical of him," Sheree Boyd said of her son, who turned 20 on Sunday. "He's always liked boxers, the wilder the better. But we'd never seen him wear pink before."
    The photo drew a wide response on the Internet. A handful of commentators found it an undignified representation of America's fighting forces but most supported Boyd. "I think this is great," a woman named Melissa wrote on a TV station message board. "I wish I had an address for him. I'd send him some that say `Don't mess with Texas.'"
    At the Times Web site earlier this week, a technology officer was surprised to find that one of the top 10 search items was "pink boxers." It was people looking for the photograph.
    Boyd doesn't have to worry about his job. U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, speaking in New York on Thursday, said he wanted to meet Boyd and shake his hand the next time he's in Afghanistan. He lauded Boyd for having "a special kind of courage."
    Guttenfelder said Boyd was one of the bravest soldiers he'd seen in Afghanistan. Guttenfelder also said he was surprised by the amount of attention the photo received.
    "It doesn't really belong to me anymore," he said. "You put it out there and it takes on a life of its own."
    He believes that most people recognize what he saw in the situation. "When the Taliban starts shooting, whatever you're doing, whatever you're wearing, you run to your station," he said.
    Sheree Boyd said she and her husband had heard from many people expressing admiration for their son. She's eating that up, as any mom would, but said she appreciates how the photo reminds Americans that it's the "kid next door" fighting the war.
    She said she hopes to see her son back home by the Fourth of July. Would he be wearing pink boxers in any Independence Day parades?
    "Don't challenge him," she said, laughing. "He just may do it."
    Last edited by Hosakawa Tito; 05-24-2009 at 12:24. Reason: re-added pic after it disappeared???
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*

  2. #2
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: War can be hell...

    I don't get the fuss around this photo...

    What you wear under your uniform is not regulated. If you sleep and someone attacks you bounce up and take your position.

    I cant even remember all the times I've been down in a foxhole in my underwear, flack jacket and helmet (mostly on drills though) :)

    Sure, it's a bit fun that the boxers are pink...


    I think anyone who has done armytime wont raise an eyebrow at the pic... Just another day at work :)

  3. #3
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: War can be hell...

    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
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    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: War can be hell...

    I got $20 that says the red shirt got combat-washed with the once white boxers, resulting in "pink". It ain't like Afghanistan has a laudromat in every valley, Forward Operating Base, or foxhole.

    The GI next to him has no socks, tennis shoes and t-shirt; the warrior manning the M60 on the right has non-camo torso-wear. And somebody had the presence of mind to have a camera above and behind this fireTeam to snap a photo...

    This old sergeant smells "fake dawn 'stand-to' alert for embarrassing photo op".

    Looking at the valley and pass in the background, I give extra points for good oversight location. I just worry that I don't see any commo equipment, for our intrepid shower-shoes warriors to report enemy activity below, or action on their position.

    ...She said she hopes to see her son back home by the Fourth of July. Would he be wearing pink boxers in any Independence Day parades?
    "Don't challenge him," she said, laughing. "He just may do it."
    Texans.

    Wut'cha gonna do?
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  5. #5
    Awaiting the Rapture Member rotorgun's Avatar
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    Default Re: War can be hell...

    If you guys will indulge me, as that picture reminded me of an incident, and I shall tell a little "war story" from my past.

    During a training exercise, back in the good old cold war days, we had this Captain. He was a West Point Graduate, as he was wont to proudly display by the wearing of his West Point graduation ring. Basically he was a good officer, but at times could be somewhat of a tyrant. Well...he decided to hold a little mock attack on our perimeter defenses one night, after a long day of humping ammo to our aircraft. Needless to say, we all were exhausted already, but he wanted us to be prepared for any eventuality. He had picked a couple of guys to act as OPFOR (Opposing Forces) and had them simulate an attack after we had all bedded down. When we heard the firing, and the captain blew his whistle we began to respond. As we were all in various modes of undress, most of us took time to get our uniforms on, grab our gear, and most importantly put on our boots before we went running to our fighting positions.

    After we all got to our positions, and began to halfheartedly return fire with our blank ammo (those of us who had bothered to remember it), he very disgustedly halted the exercise. He then called us all together and issued us a first class West Point ***chewing. He reminded us that we had better respond a bit quicker, and what in the blue blazes were we thinking about taking the time to get dressed for. He then sent us back to our sleeping bag with orders to undress, get in the rack, and the next time he blew his whistle we had better get to our fighting positions in thirty seconds! He then told us he didn't care if we were as naked as a jaybird, but we had "by God" do better or we would be doing it all night.

    Well....that bit about the nudity was the wrong thing to tell a bunch of veteran Armament specialists. We all just looked at each other slyly, and off to the rack we go. After about thirty minutes there goes that whistle. The next thing the captain sees is about 15 guys run by him in their birthday suits wearing nothing but their harness, boots, helmets and carrying their weapons. We jump into our holes (carefully mind you) and start blazing away like no tomorrow!


    He tried to say something inspiring afterwords, but we noticed that he was on the point of cracking up. All he could say was "Very good men, let's not have anymore iterations of slow response again. Dismissed!"

    He never did ask us to do that exercise again.
    Last edited by rotorgun; 05-24-2009 at 04:25.
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    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: War can be hell...

    Great story rotorgun!
    This space intentionally left blank

  7. #7
    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Default Re: War can be hell...

    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan View Post
    I got $20 that says the red shirt got combat-washed with the once white boxers, resulting in "pink". It ain't like Afghanistan has a laudromat in every valley, Forward Operating Base, or foxhole.

    The GI next to him has no socks, tennis shoes and t-shirt; the warrior manning the M60 on the right has non-camo torso-wear. And somebody had the presence of mind to have a camera above and behind this fireTeam to snap a photo...

    This old sergeant smells "fake dawn 'stand-to' alert for embarrassing photo op".

    Looking at the valley and pass in the background, I give extra points for good oversight location. I just worry that I don't see any commo equipment, for our intrepid shower-shoes warriors to report enemy activity below, or action on their position.



    Texans.

    Wut'cha gonna do?
    From another story I read on this the boxers have red hearts that say "I Love NY" on them, so I don't think they are a casualty of combat washing in this instance. For a Texan I imagine the fact they say "I Love NY" is the major embarassment and possible grounds for banishment from the Republic. Come on Mom, send him boxers that say "Don't Mess with Texas".

    This isn't garrison duty, and the conditions they are living in are quite primitive so being in various states of undress, even if it's a canned photo-op, depicts the real sometimes hilarious looking scenarios they endure.

    Rotorgun's funny story reminds me of a similar training exercise I participated in. Streaking for your gun positions in underwear, flak-jacket, and helmet...literally.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*

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    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: War can be hell...

    It's a good thing nobody took up my bet; I'd have lost. :)

    This article fleshes out the story with more details: the drawers are pink, bought to amuse his pals, and the shirt is from a Texas sweets-shop.

    And I shouldn't have been worried about commo gear. As this pic shows, SP4 Boyd is the Squad RTO:



    My apologies to Boyd no evil was intended. I guess I've grown a little more cynical lately. A 19-year old in over 200 firefights can wear any damn gear he wants, as far as I'm concerned.
    Last edited by KukriKhan; 05-24-2009 at 18:18.
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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: War can be hell...

    I've been in my foxhole in my bozers just once, and as I had the rest of my clothes with me, that didn't last long... Considering it was around -20 degrees, I would've frozen to death if I tried the same ass this guy


    The boxer was probably a grey or black of the tight kind....
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  10. #10
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: War can be hell...

    With the obvious exception being protective equipment and sensitive items like weapons and NVGs, any Platoon Leader or C/O worth his salt will let his troops in theater modify their uniform as they see for comfort and mobility. Regardless, there are still jerk officers in theater who expect boots to be bloused a certain way and molley vests to be organized a certain way, and it hurts morale. It's not all bad, though, because those same jerk officers inadvertantly push good enlisted to commission so I have peers that arent mostly 24 year old ROTC kids.
    Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!

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    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: War can be hell...

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump View Post
    With the obvious exception being protective equipment and sensitive items like weapons and NVGs, any Platoon Leader or C/O worth his salt will let his troops in theater modify their uniform as they see for comfort and mobility. Regardless, there are still jerk officers in theater who expect boots to be bloused a certain way and molley vests to be organized a certain way, and it hurts morale. It's not all bad, though, because those same jerk officers inadvertantly push good enlisted to commission so I have peers that arent mostly 24 year old ROTC kids.
    Oh dear. I don't think we would have got on, should you have been in my regiment. In my opinion, the British soldier can face any enemy, of any size and brutishness, with nary a twitch of his lip as long as his buttons are polished and fastened, and his boots sparkle.

    Of course (to paraphrase an old chum) this was back in the old days when the prerequisite of a British campaign was that the enemy should under no circumstances carry guns -- even spears made us think twice. The kind of people we liked to fight were two feet tall and armed with dry grass. One's military experience comprised the perfecting the art of ordering a pink gin and saying "Do you do it doggy-doggy?" in Gaelic, when suddenly forty million heavily armed Russians hoved into view.

    I have the highest regard for the United States military, but you do take this democracy thing far too seriously. Promoting the common soldiery to the officer corps? How will they know how to dress for dinner?

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    Corporate Hippie Member rasoforos's Avatar
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    Default Re: War can be hell...

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump View Post

    Regardless, there are still jerk officers in theater who expect boots to be bloused a certain way and molley vests to be organized a certain way, and it hurts morale.
    There is a good reason why there is so much discipline. Security. When at war you cannot allow your men to let's say not wear their helmet because it is 'too hot'. If he does he gets really close to having to explain to his superiors why his men's brains left to go an have a little walk outside their skulls.

    I am currently sort of doing the same with my crews at work since we have issued them safety shoes and hats and they cry that it hurts their little pink toes
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    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: War can be hell...

    http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/fo...091&highlight=

    Guys, this is one of my good friends. We were in ROTC together in high school and he made front page headlines news because of this picture. Ive known him since about 7th grade I believe.



  14. #14
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: War can be hell...

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost View Post
    Of course (to paraphrase an old chum) this was back in the old days when the prerequisite of a British campaign was that the enemy should under no circumstances carry guns -- even spears made us think twice. The kind of people we liked to fight were two feet tall and armed with dry grass. One's military experience comprised the perfecting the art of ordering a pink gin and saying "Do you do it doggy-doggy?" in Gaelic, when suddenly forty million heavily armed Russians hoved into view.
    I sense uncited Blackadder references.

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    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasoforos View Post
    There is a good reason why there is so much discipline. Security. When at war you cannot allow your men to let's say not wear their helmet because it is 'too hot'. If he does he gets really close to having to explain to his superiors why his men's brains left to go an have a little walk outside their skulls.

    I am currently sort of doing the same with my crews at work since we have issued them safety shoes and hats and they cry that it hurts their little pink toes

    I exempted things like helmets in my post. Of course those need to be worn. In garrison strict rules for non-essential uniform are fine, but when some platoon leader tells his soldiers they have to have pouches on their web gear organized a certain way that is going too far. Different people have different body styles, and when you are rolling around in the prone and kicking in doors it may be more comfortable for you to have you magazine pouches high on your chest, your grenade pouches on your right hip, your NVGs on your shoulder and your canteens on your butt. But their are actually COs and PLs in warzones who make SOP as to where these things need to be exactly on your molley vest and body armor and its freaking retarded.

    It's not uncommon to see scout squads and far patrols in Iraq and Afghanistan wearing mismatched, outdated and sometimes non-US uniform components and sporting 3 day facial hair. You work with what you got, you work with whats comfortable, and sometimes summer BDU pants are a better fit for the situation than standard ACU trousers. Of course they fix themselves when they return to the FOB.
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    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: War can be hell...

    At least you guys have Molly Vests. Us oldies had to try and survive with web belt and suspenders, which could never carry enough water or ammo for a day's work. We ended up usually stuffing cargo pockets with extra rounds, etc. Net result: carrying 70-80 pounds of crap from the hips down, instead of distributing the weight around the torso.

    My calves ache, just remembering that. :)
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

  17. #17
    Awaiting the Rapture Member rotorgun's Avatar
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    All this talk about uniform discipline reminds me that the guys who usually gripe the worst about it are the same guys we, in the old days referred to as REMFS...Rear Echelon Mother . They are also known today as FOBBITS...those who never or rarely venture outside "the wire". In my section we sometimes refer to them as BLISTERS or HEMORRHOIDS, because they hurt, no one wants them, and they always show up when the work is done.

    Now I am an NCO and can appreciate the need for discipline during operations, and I have great pride in the wearing of my uniform, in which many comrades have given it all. I don't give a spittle however, for the needless harassment of good soldiers, who are bone tired, dirty, hungry, far from home, and whom, after coming into the FOB after a hard days operations might have their uniforms and kit in disarray. I witnessed a serious incident between some backwater Sergeant Major, probably fresh from his air conditioned hooch, and the NCOIC of a patrol of a Stryker platoon that had just finished such a mission. They were only wanting to get some chow at the DIFAC...dining facility, when this stopped them from going in because their uniforms were out of order, and of course the men were dirty, as anyone would be after a being in several firefights. As the DIFAC was going to close soon, there was no time for these people to get cleaned up.

    As the word spread down the line to the Sergeant First Class in charge, there commenced the biggest fur ball of an argument I have ever seen. Before it was over it almost turned into a first class @@@whipping. I even think I saw pistols start to be drawn. It was a good thing that word had gotten to the Stryker Brigade commander, who was a Brigadier General, or there would have been a killin'. He told the Sergeant Major that his men had just come from the game, and of course had their game face on, and had better "by God" better be allowed to eat or the Sergeant Major would "by God" find himself the Master Sargent in charge of the burning detail for the rest of his tour, and that the rest of his career would likely follow him down the along with the crap. The general then literally shoved him aside and put these men at the front of the line.

    We never saw that Sergent Major again after that. I think he was transferred to somewhere were he couldn't impact morale, like the Brigade.
    Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 06-01-2009 at 07:32. Reason: All letters of profanity must be obscured
    Rotorgun
    ...the general must neither be so undecided that he entirely distrusts himself, nor so obstinate as not to think that anyone can have a better idea...for such a man...is bound to make many costly mistakes
    Onasander

    Editing my posts due to poor typing and grammer is a way of life.

  18. #18
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: War can be hell...

    Now thats funny
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  19. #19
    Awaiting the Rapture Member rotorgun's Avatar
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    Default Re: War can be hell...

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump View Post
    Now that's funny
    I thought you might think so. I know it was a bit off topic, but not too much in lieu of the now famous boxer shorts! If that soldier was in my platoon, I would commend him publicly for his motivation and quick response time, and then I would pull him aside and tell him to get a uniform on while I pulled a part of his shift. I think I would even tell the commander what great troops he has who would rather risk censure from their comrades and NCOs than let their fire team down by missing his responsibility on the perimeter.
    Last edited by rotorgun; 06-01-2009 at 20:17.
    Rotorgun
    ...the general must neither be so undecided that he entirely distrusts himself, nor so obstinate as not to think that anyone can have a better idea...for such a man...is bound to make many costly mistakes
    Onasander

    Editing my posts due to poor typing and grammer is a way of life.

  20. #20
    Corporate Hippie Member rasoforos's Avatar
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    Default Re: War can be hell...

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump View Post
    I exempted things like helmets in my post. Of course those need to be worn. In garrison strict rules for non-essential uniform are fine, but when some platoon leader tells his soldiers they have to have pouches on their web gear organized a certain way that is going too far. Different people have different body styles, and when you are rolling around in the prone and kicking in doors it may be more comfortable for you to have you magazine pouches high on your chest, your grenade pouches on your right hip, your NVGs on your shoulder and your canteens on your butt. But their are actually COs and PLs in warzones who make SOP as to where these things need to be exactly on your molley vest and body armor and its freaking retarded.

    It's not uncommon to see scout squads and far patrols in Iraq and Afghanistan wearing mismatched, outdated and sometimes non-US uniform components and sporting 3 day facial hair. You work with what you got, you work with whats comfortable, and sometimes summer BDU pants are a better fit for the situation than standard ACU trousers. Of course they fix themselves when they return to the FOB.
    I had to google half of your abbreviations but I see your point
    Αξιζει φιλε να πεθανεις για ενα ονειρο, κι ας ειναι η φωτια του να σε καψει.

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    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: War can be hell...

    Quote Originally Posted by rasoforos View Post
    I had to google half of your abbreviations but I see your point
    I know. It's a beautiful sight.


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