Maccabean Revolt... A SUBMOD for EB II

[Dutchhoplite]

the use of historical sources (as Josephus)

Josephus clearly speaks of phalanxes of both sides. That doesn't sound like a confrontation between a phalanx and poorly equipped skirmishers, does it??

For the revolting army however the sources are clear. Mostlyif not completely skirmishers and slingers. You don't believe that an army that revolted had an instant highly trained and equipped army? If that's what logical assumption is, I guess the earth must indeed be a cube.

What sources Maccabees?? Josphus?? Rather biased don't you think??

By the way, Mr. Maccabeus waved his magic wand and an army sprouted out of the ground. That's the only way possible

Pick up a book by Bar-Kochva or even Osprey if you want at least a somewhat historical basis (I believe they have one on it)

Errr...please read: Judas Maccabaeus: The Jewish Struggle Against the Seleucids, from page 68 and further.

If even that isn't wanted well I'd suggest go ahead and give them the Macedonian phalanx.

[keravnos]

From a post of mine, in TWCENTER

Three units I would love to see are the following... (all 5 are historically attested) --I have taken the liberty of adding more units, as I think they should be done and maybe form a base for a mod which would center on the state that the Makabaioi created.

@Aqd, thanks in advance for any work you might do based on the following. Much appreciated.

-Ioudaioi Klerouchoi, they would be the Cleruchs who would be given land in order to fight for the Hellenistic Kings and/or be used as guard forces to outposts. They were allied to both Alexandros and Ptolemaios (as Josephus recounts-could find the original text if it is required- and given land to settle and priviledges as a result). In Ptolemaic Egypt, they would be considered "Hellenes" and in Ptolemaic Alexandria, just before the death of Cleopatra, they would number 300.000 people out of 600.000 total population.

I picture them looking something like the ones below...
(thureoi found in drawings at the synagogue of Dura Europos), to be used for coloring the thureos shields.




-Ioudaioi Ekatontamachoi, they would be the "hundred fighters" aka elite fighters of the Makkabaioi (8000 in number, most probably mercs), or the Hasmoneans ."Hundred-fighters" tuted as such because each of them could slay 100 enemies or already had. They would be armed much like the Thureos carrying troops you show there but with a major difference. Their thureoi shields according to the texts we have were bronze coated much like the earlier round "aspis shields" of Classical era hoplites. The bronze coating would go OVER THE FINISHED THUREOS.
http://books.google.gr/books?id=t05o...num=1#PPA94,M1

I would give them an "ascalon" helmet

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

or a sidon helmet, (the following is from a Ptolemaic grave) (side)
http://www.antiquemilitaryhistory.co.../sidontype.JPG

front,
https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2...ic_soldier.jpg

(as it was found in present day Askelon in Israel), a long kopis sword (initially from the cavalry, but the elite infantry units carried it as well) a bronze clad thureos shield (1.1 meters in length)

The thureoi would look something like this...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

They would look something like this,

and


bronze coated like the following:


Please note that the bronze coating would be hammered into place over a finished thureos. This means that on top of an already existing thureos shield a bronze piece of corresponding dimensions would be placed then hammered and chiseled into place by craftsment. This would ensure added protection to the thureos from blunt instruments that might otherwise crack the wood, with the disadvantage that the thureos shield would weigh more. This, thureos, therefore would only serve its purpose of extended protection for the one carrying it, when they were experienced powerful troops. Otherwise, it would have been too heavy and cumbersome to carry in battle. The bronze coating, even if considered by some as pureley cosmetic did protect the wood underneath and also had and added advantage: It would reflect sunlight on the assaulting enemies breaking their concentration at exactly the time where they would strike by directing the sunlight on their eyes.

Thureos would have a spine (non covered in bronze like the rest of the thureos) and the following as an emblem, one on each side of the spine of the thureos. It would be emblazoned on the shield.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Co...us_c_40BCE.jpg

They would wear a chain mail cuirass exactly like the following Ptolemaic soldier of 145 BCE,
https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2...ic_soldier.jpg

Ioudaioi Zelotai, the following pic is inspired by those who fought in Massada,


This would be a very interesting unit to have. Recruited in the general area of Israel, with scale armor, NO helmet (therefore reducing their armor somewhat) but with devastating assault and morale. Could attack without orders, though.

Ioudaioi toxotai no further info needed, I think than the pic.



-Nabataioi Thureophoroi, they would carry a thureos much like anyone else at that time, but the rest of their outfit would ressemble an Arabian of today. They would wear pants as well.
the following...



but with sandals instead of boots and arabic headscarf wrapped around their heads. NO BOW.

[keravnos]

Josephus clearly speaks of phalanxes of both sides. That doesn't sound like a confrontation between a phalanx and poorly equipped skirmishers, does it??

Phalanx does NOT mean pike. Hoplites too could fight in phalanx formation, meaning interlocked shields and organized fighting. Using that reasoning both phallanxes could be composed of thureos carrying troops...
see...

6. The great fault of most interpretations of the military aspects of the scroll to date have been their self-imposed limitation allowing of only two possible interpretations: a Roman model, or a Hellenistic model as depicted in the tactical manuals of Arrian, Aelian and Asklepiodotos. Further possibilities need to be examined - such as a Hellenistic model based not on pike phalanxes, but on the other common Hellenistic line-of battle infantryman - the thureophoros, or even a uniquely Jewish model

Errr...please read: Judas Maccabaeus: The Jewish Struggle Against the Seleucids, from page 68 and further.

Will try to locate that, seems useful.

[Ghaust the Moor]

Sounds intresting. But EBII hasn't come out yet. Are you making this for EBI?

[keravnos]

I posted this here for whomever might make anything out of it. I posted the same post in a thread over at TWCENTER where AqD makes some Eastern units.