Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Default Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    Not sure if this is the right subforum, but figured it was close enough. I just recently started into my first EB campaign (v1.2), as Epeiros, figuring they would be a challenge but very doable, considering I've beaten vanilla a few times on VH/VH. Wrong. I'm playing on VH campaign/H battle (huge unit sizes) and getting my ass kicked constantly. I'm about 15 years in and am barely holding on against the combined onslaught of Makedonia and the KH, who apparently allied even though they both refused time and again with me. Some of these battles are ridiculous - I know EB ups the difficulty level and that AI units get some morale/combat boosts on hard, but I've had things like one unit of peltasts meleeing three of my hoplite units to death. The morale on these enemy units seems to be through the roof, too, because it typically takes about 80-90% casualties for a unit to rout, even when their general's dead and they're surrounded. Mass routs don't seem to happen like they did in vanilla, either, and I wind up having to beat each individual unit to within an inch of its life before it finally turns and runs. Money is a constant issue, too - I'm never able to recruit more than one unit every season or two and I can't seem to figure out an effective way of upgrading my economy. I see other people posting things like Epeiros AARs on VH/VH showing them conquering Greece in twenty years and I can't see any way that would be possible, so am I doing something wrong or is there some other problem?

    One other random Epeiros question - is it possible to replace your elephants?
    Last edited by option; 06-01-2009 at 15:35.

  2. #2
    Guitar God Member Mediolanicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    On the banks of the Scaldis.
    Posts
    1,355

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    M battle. A lot of work has gone into the unit-balancing.

    And go slowly, build up your economy. You've got the time. Gameplay is slower than vanilla.


    Replacing? I guess you mean retraining? Yes, lvl5 factional MIC in, IIRC, Ambrakia.
    __________________

    --> - Never near Argos - <--

  3. #3
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    In ancient Middle East, driving Assyrian war machines...
    Posts
    3,991
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    Except you are extremely excellent tactician, you should stick on medium Battle difficulty...
    A unit of peltasts meleeing 3 units of your hoplites unto death? I have a hypothesis:
    1) This was Peltastai Makedonikoi, they are elite infantry, so don't get surprised... They can chew even Hypaspistai...
    2) You play on hard, the enemy got +4 attack, and Peltastai are good melee troops anyway... didn't get surprised if your Hoplitai Haploi get meleed to death... (I don't believe if it was Standard Hoplitai)

    My Projects : * Near East Total War * Nusantara Total War * Assyria Total War *
    * Watch the mind-blowing game : My Little Ponies : The Mafia Game!!! *

    Also known as SPIKE in TWC

  4. #4
    Devout worshipper of Bilious Member miotas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,035

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    recommended difficulty is VH/M.

    The morale was increased to make the battles last longer. Charging the rear is the quickest way to cause a rout, but even then its not insta rout like vanilla.

    The money issues increase the difficulty of the game and make it more more fun. No more one stack per city like vanilla. Takeing a few cities quickly and then disbanding your most expensive units is a good way to solve money problems, pella would be a good target for epiros, plus pella has those graves you can loot for some serious cash if you're that way inclined, 20000 IIRC.

    I think you need a top level MIC in your capital for elephantes.

    - Four Horsemen of the Presence

  5. #5
    Symbasileus ton Rhomaioktonon Member Maion Maroneios's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Heraklion, Crete, Greece
    Posts
    2,610

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    Quote Originally Posted by miotas View Post
    you can loot for some serious cash if you're that way inclined, 20000 IIRC
    That was a barbarous statement. No true Hellen would destroy a wonder, hoewever grave the situation.

    Maion
    ~Maion

  6. #6
    Devout worshipper of Bilious Member miotas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,035

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios View Post
    That was a barbarous statement. No true Hellen would destroy a wonder, hoewever grave the situation.

    Maion
    Of course no true hellen would, but those epeiotes are a bit weird if you ask me And I did get a perverse sense of satisfaction as the sauro's once when I rampaged all through greece and italy knocking down every building in every town and city.

    - Four Horsemen of the Presence

  7. #7
    Symbasileus ton Rhomaioktonon Member Maion Maroneios's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Heraklion, Crete, Greece
    Posts
    2,610

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    Quote Originally Posted by miotas View Post
    And I did get a perverse sense of satisfaction as the sauro's once when I rampaged all through greece and italy knocking down every building in every town and city.


    Maion
    ~Maion

  8. #8
    Member Member ARCHIPPOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Argive homeland...
    Posts
    268

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    the thebeans looted the Delphoi oracle treasury and Greeks generaly exandrapodised entire greek cities with little or no remorse... in war Greeks were as cruel as any other "barbarian" ... "civilised" ,"refined" and yet so brutal...
    Ongoing Campaigns: Baktria, Casse, Koinon Hellenon, Pahlava.

    Abandoned/Failed Campaigns: Aedui-Epeiros-Pontos-Saba-Saka Rauka-Sauromatae. (I'll be back though!)

  9. #9
    Member Member Knight of Heaven's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Portugal , Olisipo
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    well it was gauls on payroll of Phirrus who plunder the graves, Still for helping your issue, im doing battles on hard i find realy fun, you just a have to be a little creative with the units, use slingers and archers wisely, they can change things with pacience, also they cheap, and will get more experience in time. a better thing to do is upgrading your economy, build at start roads, ports markets etc the bigger the city is, the more taxes, more monney, raise taxes is also good, but understand one thing only by having more cities you will have more monney. Build buildings that give monney at the start, later on it will give you a boost, trade agreements as much you can. i had a hard time playing with KH, but now , slowly i beat the crap out of makedonians, in the biggining with only an army with generals and some slingers and archers, and levies...lol no cav... i win against makedonians on hard, now i just take pela, thermon, have halicarnassus and kydonia, and im rich as ever, you just have to take it slow with pacience, try to not going in to debt. Discard some units you dont need. it will be usefull.

  10. #10
    Klibanophoros Ton Rhomaioktono Member Duguntz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Iasi, Romania
    Posts
    766

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios View Post
    That was a barbarous statement. No true Hellen would destroy a wonder, hoewever grave the situation.

    Maion
    WHO SAID BARBAROUS??? Nah, destroying tombs is a good way to make extra cash... plus it's funny, especially for Romans and Hellenes ones (ok guys, we all mean in-game hmmm! nobody get me wrong, I'm not necro-fanatic!) and try destroying them with a cudgel! (Go to the north... Sweboz will lend you one!)
    Opinions are like bacteries : we all have, but it's better to keep them for ourself... (By me!)

    generously given by Nachtmeister
    generously given by Macilrille for Sweboz combat tactics
    Generously given by Brennus




  11. #11
    Σέλευκος Νικάτωρ Member Fluvius Camillus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands!
    Posts
    1,078

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    Lol, in a single campaign I disband a total of less than 5 units with decent fighting force. And I still end up with good economy and a world thats mine!

    ~Fluvius
    Quote Originally Posted by Equilibrius
    Oh my god, i think that is the first time in human history that someone cares to explain an acronym that people expect everybody to know in advance.
    I lived for three years not knowing what AAR is.

    Completed Campaigns: Epeiros (EB1.0), Romani (EB1.1), Baktria (1.2) and Arche Seleukeia
    1x From Olaf the Great for my quote!
    3x1x<-- From Maion Maroneios for succesful campaigns!
    5x2x<-- From Aemilius Paulus for winning a contest!
    1x From Mulceber!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    I normally disband all boats immediately, and expand rapidly for the first 5-7 turns. after that, i'm fine.


    Btw, Maion, I normally keep the tombs intact when I conquered sacked razed Pella to the ground. Is there value to the tombs? I'll think of plundering it someday.

    'Let no man be called happy before his death. Till then, he is not happy, only lucky." -Solon


  13. #13
    Vicious Celt Warlord Member Celtic_Punk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    In your kitchen, raiding your fridge!
    Posts
    1,575

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios View Post
    That was a barbarous statement. No true Hellen would destroy a wonder, hoewever grave the situation.

    Maion
    Hey I don't like destroying wonders. I might need that later for when I don't come to sack your city for the gold in your unimportant civic buildings (i sometimes leave the barracks depending on how big it is so I have something to fight! I love a good fight you know?)
    Last edited by Celtic_Punk; 06-02-2009 at 01:00.
    'Who Dares WINS!' - SAS
    "The republic stands for truth and honour. For all that is noblest in our race. By truth and honour, principle and sacrifice alone will Ireland be free."-Liam Mellows


    Who knows? If it's a enough day we may all end up Generals!"

  14. #14
    Symbasileus ton Rhomaioktonon Member Maion Maroneios's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Heraklion, Crete, Greece
    Posts
    2,610

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    Quote Originally Posted by johnhughthom View Post
    Indeed, because the game is already won before you start.
    Ha-ha-ha. But I didn't expect any better from a Philoromaios, truth said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic_Punk View Post
    Hey I don't like destroying wonders. I might need that later for when I don't come to sack your city for the gold in your unimportant civic buildings (i sometimes leave the barracks depending on how big it is so I have something to fight! I love a good fight you know?)
    Ah, a barbaros with a brain. I'm impressed, really I am.

    Maion
    ~Maion

  15. #15
    Member Member Cyclops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
    968

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios View Post
    Ah, a barbaros with a brain. I'm impressed, really I am.

    Maion
    Naughty Maion, didn't Alexander sack Persepolis?

    I think it is reasonable (especially for RP purposes) to sack the wonders of certain other cultures, especially hostile ones.

    Personally I'll RP the Iberians sort of venerating Jupiter when they take Rome, but Germans and Gauls sack the crap out of it. Likewise Gauls in Hellas do what Gauls do best. Pontioans and Armenians make sensible and respectful choices concerning wonders, but Getai can lose their temper (they might leave Troy intact but the Mausoleum is a juicy target for a poor Drapanista).

    When my Bartix go places in India they are all "we totally respect Shiva and Buddha" but I imagine if my macedonians got there they might be less tolerant and more likely to get drunk and "accidently" burn down the reliquary to Buddhas toe or whatever. Just for RP purposes of course.
    From Hax, Nachtmeister & Subotan

    Jatte lambasts Calico Rat

  16. #16

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    I'm playing Epeiros on H/H right now, and it's fairly easy, considering this is my first ever EB and TW campaign. I guess VH campaign would make it even more difficult with more enemy units, but diplomatically this game is probably the same as a VH one anyway.

    Here's the thing about Hard battles: Hammer and anvil works wonders, even with non-phalangitai or hoplitai line infantry. And the other thing is, kill the enemy general as soon as you can. Captains don't seem to matter that much, so no worries about them. They seem to get replaced upon being killed anyway. But if you see a starred general alive, yeah, don't be surprised if enemy units don't rout till they're almost entirely dead. Your own general, with some help, can probably do this job even before the melee starts, unless the enemy general is infantry. Still, even with an enemy general, a massed cavalry charge to the rear seems to work, with something like 3-4 cavalry units on one unit, especially if they include your general's bodyguards.

    Anyway, I don't know how you play and I'm not an expert or anything, so I can't say too much more. I like Epeiros, if only because of elephants in Ambrakia and its history (i.e. kicking some Romaioi ass). Some people would advise you to disband the expensive elephants at the start, but why would you do such a thing to the poor harmless beasts? Err... harmless to you, that is. Hopefully. Use them as a trump card, the ultimate hammer, in the early battles for a little blitzing. Doesn't matter if most of them die - that would actually save you money - they would hopefully have served their purpose in the first few turns. Disband all but one fleet instead. With a few mines, your would certainly be in the black.

    Another thing is your phalangitai will never compare in class to the ones the Diadochoi can field, so don't count on that. In my experience, Chaonion Agema can't win against Ptolemaic Agema even with a little elevation advantage. So as Epeiros, hammer and anvil is even more crucial, as your infantry can really only hold the line and not win all my themselves sometimes. Moreover, with limited AoR, it's going to be more difficult to retrain and field your elites, so you will be forced to rely on local troops and mercs more. It makes for a more varied play, though. With proper execution of hammer-and-anvil and some clever manuevering according to the terrain, you can definitely beat bigger armies on this difficulty with a decent enough army composition.

    Lastly, I found the Romaioi pretty tough early on, since Italy was quite difficult to reinforce. Things became easier after I shipped the elephants to Italy. They squish barbaroi. But it was a pretty long war of attrition for a while before it started to snowball in my favour. The good news, I guess, is that you don't need MoT and start with a foothold in Italy, so you can crush those pesky Romaioi before they become too troublesome without a worry.

  17. #17
    Slixpoitation Member A Very Super Market's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Vancouver, BC, Canada, North America, Terra, Sol, Milky Way, Local Cluster, Universe
    Posts
    3,700

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    VH is much harder with the Celts and Germanians. They rely more on just roughing it with the other battle line, so the difficulty really factors in on it. Hellenics have an easy job, since phalangites are practically inpenetrable. As Epeiros, you also have cheap AP infantry, and very good light lancers from the start.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    WELCOME TO AVSM
    Cool store, bro! I want some ham.
    No ham, pepsi.
    They make deli slices of frozen pepsi now? Awesome!
    You also need to purchase a small freezer for storage of your pepsi.
    It runs on batteries. You'll need a few.
    Uhh, I guess I won't have pepsi then. Do you have change for a twenty?
    You can sift through the penny jar
    ALL WILL BE CONTINUED

    - Proud Horseman of the Presence

  18. #18
    Guest Aemilius Paulus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Russia/Europe in the summer, Florida rest of the time
    Posts
    3,473

    Post Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    Quote Originally Posted by A Very Super Market View Post
    As Epeiros, you also have cheap AP infantry, and very good light lancers from the start.
    Watch who you are calling cheap, you lousy, not-so super mini-market. But yes, those Illyrioi Paraktioi (Illyrian Coastal Levies) are quite handy. AP infantry can always take on disproportionate in quality units.

    That said, my strategy for the early parts of my Eperios game was to have the Phyletichoi Illyrioi (Illyrian Levy Spearmen) or Hoplitai Haploi (Greek Levy Hoplites) hold the centre while Illyrioi Hippeis (Illyrian Light Cavalry) swiftly wheeled around and charged into the backs of enemies. Countless Roman Triarii and Principe stacks perished in such way. Very easy game it was.

  19. #19
    Klibanophoros Ton Rhomaioktono Member Duguntz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Iasi, Romania
    Posts
    766

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    Hold the line? hold what line? No line holds Sweboz... We charge, run threw and kill kill kill
    Opinions are like bacteries : we all have, but it's better to keep them for ourself... (By me!)

    generously given by Nachtmeister
    generously given by Macilrille for Sweboz combat tactics
    Generously given by Brennus




  20. #20

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    Yeah, I restarted my campaign on VH/M and it's been much easier. I immediately abandoned Taras, brought my men there to the mainland and disbanded my navy, and proceeded to blitz Makedon and KH (sacking the Royal Tombs to keep me afloat financially but leaving the rest of the wonders). Left Makedon alive on Mytilene and KH on Rhodos, and both of them are currently picking at Arche Seleukia in Anatolia while I consolidate in the Balkans. I'm planning to use spies to cause Taras to revolt back to me for an Italian foothold once the Punic Wars start, and hoping the Getai don't break their alliance in the meantime.

    Quote Originally Posted by aelflune View Post
    I'm playing Epeiros on H/H right now, and it's fairly easy, considering this is my first ever EB and TW campaign. I guess VH campaign would make it even more difficult with more enemy units, but diplomatically this game is probably the same as a VH one anyway.

    Here's the thing about Hard battles: Hammer and anvil works wonders, even with non-phalangitai or hoplitai line infantry. And the other thing is, kill the enemy general as soon as you can. Captains don't seem to matter that much, so no worries about them. They seem to get replaced upon being killed anyway. But if you see a starred general alive, yeah, don't be surprised if enemy units don't rout till they're almost entirely dead. Your own general, with some help, can probably do this job even before the melee starts, unless the enemy general is infantry. Still, even with an enemy general, a massed cavalry charge to the rear seems to work, with something like 3-4 cavalry units on one unit, especially if they include your general's bodyguards.

    Anyway, I don't know how you play and I'm not an expert or anything, so I can't say too much more. I like Epeiros, if only because of elephants in Ambrakia and its history (i.e. kicking some Romaioi ass). Some people would advise you to disband the expensive elephants at the start, but why would you do such a thing to the poor harmless beasts? Err... harmless to you, that is. Hopefully. Use them as a trump card, the ultimate hammer, in the early battles for a little blitzing. Doesn't matter if most of them die - that would actually save you money - they would hopefully have served their purpose in the first few turns. Disband all but one fleet instead. With a few mines, your would certainly be in the black.

    Another thing is your phalangitai will never compare in class to the ones the Diadochoi can field, so don't count on that. In my experience, Chaonion Agema can't win against Ptolemaic Agema even with a little elevation advantage. So as Epeiros, hammer and anvil is even more crucial, as your infantry can really only hold the line and not win all my themselves sometimes. Moreover, with limited AoR, it's going to be more difficult to retrain and field your elites, so you will be forced to rely on local troops and mercs more. It makes for a more varied play, though. With proper execution of hammer-and-anvil and some clever manuevering according to the terrain, you can definitely beat bigger armies on this difficulty with a decent enough army composition.

    Lastly, I found the Romaioi pretty tough early on, since Italy was quite difficult to reinforce. Things became easier after I shipped the elephants to Italy. They squish barbaroi. But it was a pretty long war of attrition for a while before it started to snowball in my favour. The good news, I guess, is that you don't need MoT and start with a foothold in Italy, so you can crush those pesky Romaioi before they become too troublesome without a worry.
    I'd been using hammer and anvil strikes gratuitously (as always) in my VH/H campaign, and the damn enemy units would just sit there not routing and not dying. Their morale and staying power was through the roof, which was frustrating beyond belief.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Couple of EB gameplay questions/issues

    Quote Originally Posted by option View Post
    I'd been using hammer and anvil strikes gratuitously (as always) in my VH/H campaign, and the damn enemy units would just sit there not routing and not dying. Their morale and staying power was through the roof, which was frustrating beyond belief.
    That's weird. From my experience, it works perfectly well. Did you make sure your cavalry has enough distance to charge? And you need a good charge value. Equites Romani, for example, are pathetic and wouldn't cause routs a lot of the time. You might also have to charge a few times, depending on the units you are fighting and whether the enemy general is still alive and what he's like. If you could give some specific examples, it would be good.

    I think it's unfortunate that you gave up on Hard battles. I think Medium would be too easy considering the AI pretty much falls for the same tricks all the time, and once you start using tactics like denying your flanks and etc, enemy armies about double yours in size wouldn't be impossible to beat. On medium, I imagine an army even larger than that wouldn't be a problem on open ground

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO