Yet another Sweboz question!

[Duguntz]

Gooooood day to everybody! I told in my last ''serious'' thread that I was bothering by the blitz I made with Sweboz, capturing Rome (and destroying razing unleashing utter destruction in every cities captured as south as... (the city south of Rome!) and of corse everything till the Gaul coast of atlantic .and I only played till 230 BC. Now I wanna start a new campain, but Harder, and i wanted to know, as the start of Sweboz is kind of messy, if playing on Hard -Hard, or very hard- Hard would be too unbalanced and become nigh-impossible campign. Or, if Medium battle difficulty was just fine, but i should wait my ennemies to built up (like 200BC) before attempting my armies out of Germania...

Opinion?

[Apázlinemjó]

Don't need to change difficulty, just give the Romans about 70 years so they can spamstack you.

[Ca Putt]

attack the sauromatae :D. Cav archers are not unbeatable but as sweboz it's sort of difficult ;)

[Duguntz]

I fouth them in only one battle... and gand, they were scary even on medium! Just to get to the city center, I losted half of my army... AND I DIDN'T REACHED THEM YET!!! Once you come to hand to hand (IF YOU LIVE TILL THERE) it's another story as their horses, appart form FM, have almost no defance and die like flies in hand to hand...

So 70 years? Damn, how I'll wait till there? I've anger problem when it comes to Romans... I can't resist... when I see a lil stack among my border... I can't help myself to shout COME AND TAKE ME!!!then throw my naked dudes and unleashe my fury upon those poor Romans... But I promise, i'll do an effort to wait!!!

[Zradha Pahlavan]

Come out onto the steppes and try fighting with the nomads if you want to know what hard is. If you think they're good in a city battle, just wait until you see what they can do to you in the open.

[DaciaJC]

I fouth them in only one battle... and gand, they were scary even on medium! Just to get to the city center, I losted half of my army... AND I DIDN'T REACHED THEM YET!!! Once you come to hand to hand (IF YOU LIVE TILL THERE) it's another story as their horses, appart form FM, have almost no defance and die like flies in hand to hand...

So 70 years? Damn, how I'll wait till there? I've anger problem when it comes to Romans... I can't resist... when I see a lil stack among my border... I can't help myself to shout COME AND TAKE ME!!!then throw my naked dudes and unleashe my fury upon those poor Romans... But I promise, i'll do an effort to wait!!!

Mount an invasion of Britannia while you wait. That should turn out interesting.

[Tyrfingr]

Mount an invasion of Britannia while you wait. That should turn out interesting.

+1

It is always entertaining to invade the British islands as the Swébôz.

[Duguntz]

Mount an invasion of Britannia while you wait. That should turn out interesting.

Yeah, I tought about it, and, I seriously will try to do it... the problem it's that it takes the infinite
just to be able to built boat, having the necessary structure takes a big while. While not so expensive, it's rather far in the game... also, do you have a trick forthe following problem : as sweboz have a real crappy economy, it's kinda hard to maintain decent army. While one front is easily defendable, and even if it's only on ''defending my territories against foes'', when it comes to multiple front at the same time, it become somewhat a real thread for the campain itself, as sweboz can't affordstacks as numerous as, let's say, Romans... and usualy, i'm at war with Romans and Aedui, and nothin will make Arverni to come on my side, Nice situation in the west hmmm? but during that ''triple war'' on the west, it's not long till Getai looks the nice northen forests...
That is the reason why I blitzed last campain, because I couldn't afford at all war of atririon against so many at the same time, so i had to destroy them good and fast in order to survive... any suggestion to make this go better? Or it's really the AI wich automaticly detect a biological form that control a faction and throw everything it got on it?

[lionhard]

I started a sweboz campaign vh/vh and got surrounded by sauromatae from th east (who are unstoppable unless u have horse archers which u dont cas ur sweboz)

rome came from the south and then lustaonna, sweboz r so weak vs every faction that apposes them in v/h v/h campaign.

I had to send a ship with an elite army of naked spear men, gaut spearmen, baltic archers and some elite generals all the way to the south of spain and sack all the cities but with in 4 turns i had only pillaged 2 major cities and the lustaonna were on my back, i now hold 1 settlement in germany and 2 settlements in spain.

My faction leader has just been slain and i have a general leading my melted forces which now only consist of light iberian spearmen and mercenarys, this is the hardest campaign iv had since playing EB. i wanted a challenge and damn it sure is.

Its just a shame carthage are sat accross the sea with huge forces and could aid my needs if only they could get on their ships and come accross.

[Duguntz]

I started a sweboz campaign vh/vh and got surrounded by sauromatae from th east (who are unstoppable unless u have horse archers which u dont cas ur sweboz)

rome came from the south and then lustaonna, sweboz r so weak vs every faction that apposes them in v/h v/h campaign.

I had to send a ship with an elite army of naked spear men, gaut spearmen, baltic archers and some elite generals all the way to the south of spain and sack all the cities but with in 4 turns i had only pillaged 2 major cities and the lustaonna were on my back, i now hold 1 settlement in germany and 2 settlements in spain.

My faction leader has just been slain and i have a general leading my melted forces which now only consist of light iberian spearmen and mercenarys, this is the hardest campaign iv had since playing EB. i wanted a challenge and damn it sure is.

Its just a shame carthage are sat accross the sea with huge forces and could aid my needs if only they could get on their ships and come accross.

oh yeah, that's what I'm talkin about... I was playing vh - vh also, but I switched to h - m... big differance, but somewhat, with units balance, your naked dudes really do wonders... too much! (like my blitz of Italia proove) and believe me, when nothing else is to fight, It's so boring, i just stopped the campain, although I only had to conquer Gawjam-Basternoz, and i already had an army 1 turn from it... but he, I don't play when i'm bored of it, no matter close am i from victory! I prefer to read some interesting philosophy books instead!!!

[Macilrille]

Mount an invasion of Britannia while you wait. That should turn out interesting.

I just did just that, recreating Knud den Store's Viking North Sea empire. It is definately worth it. Problem is that it constitutes a Blitz and in order to not overrun everyone I have to keep on the defensive against the Romans for 25- 30 more years before actually counterattacking them (I am getting spammed with stacks of Leets) and moving to the next phase of expansion, once every generation must be migration enough ;-)

I am considering copying the Cimbri raid sending a stack to fight till it dies, but I am too much of a strategist, I like to conserve my soldiers, care for them, loose as few as possible. That way i know they will sacrifice all for me as they should, and get loads of chevrons ;-)

But, there are many ways to have fun and wreak havoc while keeping defensive against Rome, raiding most of all. I detest Rome and Carthage, arrogant twats they have been in all diplomatic dealings.

Oh funny thing is, Macedonia owns all Asia minor but has been kicked from Hellas by Epeiros. KH owns Hellas (except the north that Epeiros has taken from Macedonia, and Emporion! Emporion is (as historically) a KH province/colony. Never saw that before, is it coded to join KH if it rebels? like Massilia was in some incarnation of RTW?

[Macilrille]

Yeah, I tought about it, and, I seriously will try to do it... the problem it's that it takes the infinite
just to be able to built boat, having the necessary structure takes a big while. While not so expensive, it's rather far in the game... also, do you have a trick forthe following problem : as sweboz have a real crappy economy, it's kinda hard to maintain decent army. While one front is easily defendable, and even if it's only on ''defending my territories against foes'', when it comes to multiple front at the same time, it become somewhat a real thread for the campain itself, as sweboz can't affordstacks as numerous as, let's say, Romans... and usualy, i'm at war with Romans and Aedui, and nothin will make Arverni to come on my side, Nice situation in the west hmmm? but during that ''triple war'' on the west, it's not long till Getai looks the nice northen forests...
That is the reason why I blitzed last campain, because I couldn't afford at all war of atririon against so many at the same time, so i had to destroy them good and fast in order to survive... any suggestion to make this go better? Or it's really the AI wich automaticly detect a biological form that control a faction and throw everything it got on it?

As you can see above I did it, on VH/M as recommended by the designers.

1. Took the "Netherlands" and Rugoz with start army. Disbanded most of army, only keps FMs that spawned like crazy 10 years into game, make all new provs Type IV at first, to keep your army of FMs and two archers with you. Send diplomats to get peace and trade to every nation on the map- you need trade. Sell you map and whatever else will gain you Mnai. Gain peace and alliances with enemies.
2. 15-20 years into game, use this army to take Denmark the eastern prov that gives you Baltic Archers and Sweden. Gawjam Scandia (or whatever the Swedish settlement is named) can build harbour for sucky boats at this point.
3. Build infrastructure, 30-35 years into game sneak one sucky boat with an army to Scotland and take it.
4. It is now but a question of time before Casse attacks you, when they do, kill them with no mercy. Till they do, consolidate.

The trick here is that you have a buffer of tough Eleutheroi almost all around you. Only likely contact for the first two generations are Gauls, who are busy fighting each other anyway and rarely gives me attention because of it, and Casse, where you have only one front.

Now in my game the Romans owns the Alps and province NNW of them far into S germany, and are spamming me, but let them. I can take those settlements at my leisure, so I keep to raidintg until the next generation of ambitious young warriors grow up...

[Vasiliyi]

You could gift the romans lots of cash, and process_cq their cities every turn. That should make them really beefed up in no time.

[Fluvius Camillus]

Im always scared I will encounter countless factory fullstacks of elites... Something from the past, so I usually beat the living $@%*~& out of a faction when they first betray/attack me...

~Fluvius

[Geticus]

I always play very hard campaign/hard battle on EB and I like it, with Sweboz the main thing for me is to max out the chevrons of my troops with a pillar of Tyr etc. and play careful you can win. I don't know how you play but I find that if I take skandza, rugii, and the two baltic states east of swebotraust they create a pretty strong maritime economy, I put my best governors on Scandza, Swebotraust and Rugoland and they combine for a pretty good income, two strong armies is very possible if you have good maritime trade and don't buy too many expensive troops (naked dudes i.e.) the Chatti clubman is your best friend here, a T3 government plus game field plus pillar of Tyr and they come out at level 4, if you want to blitz in two directions at the same time put the Chatti clubs high on your list.

Oh and I concur as to fighting the Sauromatii, winnable but very challenging on hard battle difficulty, those guys are brutal to the Sweboz, forest ambushes are useful when possible.

[Maion Maroneios]

I fouth them in only one battle... and gand, they were scary even on medium! Just to get to the city center, I losted half of my army... AND I DIDN'T REACHED THEM YET!!! Once you come to hand to hand (IF YOU LIVE TILL THERE) it's another story as their horses, appart form FM, have almost no defance and die like flies in hand to hand...

So 70 years? Damn, how I'll wait till there? I've anger problem when it comes to Romans... I can't resist... when I see a lil stack among my border... I can't help myself to shout COME AND TAKE ME!!!then throw my naked dudes and unleashe my fury upon those poor Romans... But I promise, i'll do an effort to wait!!!

You spoke as a true Romaioktonos, Duguntz

Maion

[HunGeneral]

I would also suggest you try to attack the Sauromatae - like said beware! These horsemen aet Germans for breakfest ...

If you choose this path then heres some advice: bring as many man you can - expect few to return. NEVER fight them in the Open - never attack them if they have cavalry in the army. If you must fight in the open then on defensive and get to the highest hill in sight nad pray to the gods that you have enough arrows for your archer and enough men to withstand the onslaught.

If you fight in towns send some arrow-fodder ahead - nomadic towns are built around hills - this gives extra range for there archers.

The best would be if you could get some slingers to kill the heavy cavalry. A good move would be to take the Krim (with a type 4 goverment you can get hellenic slingers and Bosphorian heavy archers there - a must have if you intend to fight the Nomads).

Invading Britain has also been mentioned - I would try that with the Sweboz aswell. Good luck to it.

About wanting to kill romans - remember patience is the mark of a great Warlord. If you have the steppes you will be able to train Sarmatian Nobel Horse archers - us them aswell... few things Kill romans better then them (insert evil laugh).

[athanaric]

I would also suggest you try to attack the Sauromatae - like said beware! These horsemen aet Germans for breakfest ...

Actually, Sauromatae vs. Swêboz is an encounter of the extremes: at range, the Swêboz don't stand a chance; in melee, the same is true for the Sauromatae.

Invading Britain has also been mentioned - I would try that with the Sweboz aswell. Good luck to it.

Britain+Ireland give some nice recruitment possibilities, namely Balroae (best light skirmishers in the game), Celto-Germanic Spearmen, Teceitos and Siluri Warband. More important still is the trade income you get from these provinces. Also, by the time you've conquered Britain, the Casse will probably have built some "universities" there...

About wanting to kill romans - remember patience is the mark of a great Warlord. If you have the steppes you will be able to train Sarmatian Nobel Horse archers - us them aswell... few things Kill romans better then them (insert evil laugh).

The Steppe and Bosphoran regions are indeed nice for Swêboz recruitment wise.
Btw. Baltic Frontiersmen are the best archers available to the Swêboz near their homelands. Very effective against other "barbarians" and a decent defense against nomadic HAs.

[miotas]

I can't help myself to shout COME AND TAKE ME!!!then throw my naked dudes and unleashe my fury upon those poor Romans... But I promise, i'll do an effort to wait!!!

Ah... I think you mean come and get me. Come and take me has rather a different connotation ;-) And then you had to go and mention unleashing naked fury... lol

[Phalanx300]

I might as well ask it here, I'm wondering how the Germanics hold their shields, with the handle being horizontal(Like Romans) or vertical(Like Vikings)?

[Knight of Heaven]

well my advice is try campaing on very hard and battle on hard, then you will see some diference, i never try a lower the battle dificuly above hard, becouse i find on hard very interesting chalenge, not too easy and not to dificult if you came prepared, sometimes battles hang in a ballence, even if at start i find myself confident. you ill find also assaulting cities much harder.

[Macilrille]

I always play very hard campaign/hard battle on EB and I like it, with Sweboz the main thing for me is to max out the chevrons of my troops with a pillar of Tyr etc. and play careful you can win. I don't know how you play but I find that if I take skandza, rugii, and the two baltic states east of swebotraust they create a pretty strong maritime economy, I put my best governors on Scandza, Swebotraust and Rugoland and they combine for a pretty good income, two strong armies is very possible if you have good maritime trade and don't buy too many expensive troops (naked dudes i.e.) the Chatti clubman is your best friend here, a T3 government plus game field plus pillar of Tyr and they come out at level 4, if you want to blitz in two directions at the same time put the Chatti clubs high on your list.

Oh and I concur as to fighting the Sauromatii, winnable but very challenging on hard battle difficulty, those guys are brutal to the Sweboz, forest ambushes are useful when possible.

Do you not mean Slagonez, the normal German Clubmen? They are better than the Chatti ones. I find a mixed group of Medininkas, Slagonez, Wargosez, Heruskez (swordsmen), some FMs, a few Leuce Eupos/German Cav and Ger/naked Celtic spearmen filling the blanks to be very effective in my Sweboz campaign. Against any enemy. Missiles kills other barbarians and the infantry beats the crap out of civilised factions and/or scares the living feces out of them. Then the cavalry chase them down when they flee.

Large pillar of Thiwoz (Tyr) is soooo useful.

[Macilrille]

Ah... I think you mean come and get me. Come and take me has rather a different connotation ;-) And then you had to go and mention unleashing naked fury... lol

Ah hahahahaha... and will the Hellenes not love that?

Joke intended, no factionwar Mak-lovers ;-)

[athanaric]

Do you not mean Slagonez, the normal German Clubmen? They are better than the Chatti ones.

Indeed; the Chatti Clubmen are better suited for garrison duty though as they are ridiculously cheap and have a better javelin range.

Large pillar of Thiwoz (Tyr) is soooo useful.

Really? I think I have to try it. Normally I build temples of Odin everywhere, because I hate HATE HATE corruption [insert appropriate fourletter words here]. It costs you half the income of a decent sized empire, and the Swêboz are poor already.

[Macilrille]

Really? I think I have to try it. Normally I build temples of Odin everywhere, because I hate HATE HATE corruption [insert appropriate fourletter words here]. It costs you half the income of a decent sized empire, and the Swêboz are poor already.

My way is; Odin for distant settlements, Tyr for recruitment centres, Nerthuz for Trade centres close in (distant gets Odin to counter corruption, in my case Wales, Caledonia and Ireland), and if you need a pop boost, try Frej.


BTW, in this Sweboz Campaign that I put my Roman one on hold to play (to get in the mood for the role playing campaign I run http://turbator.blogspot.com/), the KH just gave me 4873 mnai, then next turn offered me to loan the same and pay 4200 back, I refused, next turn they loaned me the same with only 3650 in return. They then a few turns later offered 4873 with 4100 x 7 paid back. LOL @ Greeks, I refused, but what is happening? Anyone tried anything remotedly similar? I never have.

[Ca Putt]

uuught Chatti Clubman are more crappy than Slagonaz, alright. but Imo they are more suited for a fight against enemies with many armored units and few archers(like the romans^^) I realy like them and I sometimes have to transfer population from Denmark to the Chatti lands to maintain my army :D. they are definately crap and redundant against Nomads and Getai tho.

Edit: oh yes The KH gave me the exact same sum right after I bordered their territory but they did not do anything else than that. they are among the strongest factions in that game and are allied with half of the world. sadly I'm not member of this anti Seleukid alliance and had to take sides with the grey death. Still the KH remained friendly towards me, maybe they feel Comeradeship for a Infantry FM faction :D
ps: I met them in sythia :D and southern france at the same time^^

[Watchman]

The Chatti Youth Club (as I like to call them) are actually a variant of the more common Jugunthiz - they pretty much just have clubs instead of spears. In principle they should be used in the same fashion, ie. as an expendable "first wave" to tire out the enemy and absorb the ubiquitous precursor javelins...

Nice child-rearing principles those ancient Germanics had.

[Duguntz]

You spoke as a true Romaioktonos, Duguntz

Maion

It's from my heart that I said that, while eating theirs'!!! (insert evil laugh here)

proud member of Romaioktonos social group!!!

[DaciaJC]

BTW, in this Sweboz Campaign that I put my Roman one on hold to play (to get in the mood for the role playing campaign I run http://turbator.blogspot.com/), the KH just gave me 4873 mnai, then next turn offered me to loan the same and pay 4200 back, I refused, next turn they loaned me the same with only 3650 in return. They then a few turns later offered 4873 with 4100 x 7 paid back. LOL @ Greeks, I refused, but what is happening? Anyone tried anything remotedly similar? I never have.

Yes, indeed, I remember posting a thread about this a few months ago. I decided not to exploit it (you can get a massive sum of money by accepting the deal, canceling the tribute immediately afterward, and repeating the next turn).

The relevant thread.

[Macilrille]

Yes, indeed, I remember posting a thread about this a few months ago. I decided not to exploit it (you can get a massive sum of money by accepting the deal, canceling the tribute immediately afterward, and repeating the next turn).

The relevant thread.

Ah yes, that was what you meant. However, exploiting it never occured to me :-s

Perhaps I am stupid, perhaps I roleplay, who knows ;-)