Turning off the Electric Meter

[KukriKhan]

Hi guys.

Electricity Rates are soaring here in southern california. And we're not even in summertime yet. In the Kukri household (2 people, 2,000 sq feet, 2 computers, 3 TVs, the usual appliances, well-insulated 5-year old home) the tab has tripled this month.

We've gotten scrupulous about cutting back our consumption, unplugging devices that might 'leak' unnecessarily, and such. Yet the bill rises every month.

So I'm thinking: we both work, and are gone from the house 10-12 hours per day, leaving a cat inside. Why don't I just throw the Main Breaker Switch to "OFF" when I leave for work, then flip it over to "ON" when the first one gets home? Hopefully saving 25-30% of our consumption from any latent leaks we might have, and aren't aware of?

Does anyone here know an electrician, or someone who has tried a similar tactic, to save on the electric bill?

Will I do damage to the Main Breaker flipping it on and off daily? Do I risk some kind of surge that could damage our electronics? Is there some other reason that this ('off' in the morning, 'on' at night) idea is a bad one?

[Centurion1]

Well ive dabbled in electrical engineering and the like and there are balanced good and bad. first and most importantly there shouldnt be too much leakage and if there is you may need to get the wiring fixed, especially if your house is only five years old. Second, there shouldnt be any severe damage to system but there is a possibility of damage. Depending on the type of grid your on you could surge power for your entire neighborhood with the flip of the switch (im guessing your in a neighborhood cause south cali isnt exactly roomy). So i would recommend that it probably isnt worth it.

Have you checked to see if your base rates have gone up????. I recently talked to my family (san diego county, in rancho bernardo, murrieta, la mesa, and some los angeles) They were talking about how their water and electricity has more than doubled. So it may just be the company that supplies you raising your rates? don't worry even out here on the east coast my parents have been complaining about rate hikes.

One last idea have you been keeping the air conditioning, fans, etc. (big appliances) running while you weren't at home, this would definetly increase the cost?

[Reverend Joe]

A libertarian once tried to argue to me that monopolies are actually beneficial in the long term.

Right now I want to drown him in feces.

[KukriKhan]

Have you checked to see if your base rates have gone up????. I recently talked to my family (san diego county, in rancho bernardo, murrieta, la mesa, and some los angeles) They were talking about how their water and electricity has more than tripled.

Thanks, Centurion1. Your family is in my neighborhood (Escondido, about 15 miles north of Rancho Bernardo). Our rates have indeed gone up, from 8 cents per KWh to 12, on the base rate. They then "tier" rates over the base-rate to astronomic levels. 'The base' rate would likely power 1 mini-refrigerator for 1 single guy, in winter, outside, in a snowstorm. :)

I just wanted to tap the org general consciousness to make sure I didn't do something utterly stupid by doing the 'off-on' thing.

This:

Depending on the type of grid your on you could surge power for your entire neighborhood with the flip of the switch

and this:

So i would recommend that it probably isnt worth it

makes me hesitate.

[Whacker]

Kukri, there's some power management stuff that you can install in your house that does smart power allocation depending on how you set it up. Fair warning, it can be expensive to install, but if you aren't planning on moving for a few years and use it right, the RoI will be relatively fast. I'll try and find the links to it, I was considering it at one point.

As someone else pointed out, I would NOT recommend just flipping your circuit breaker. Electricity is a fickle thing, and very much like a car most of the damage occurs when you start something. Sensetive electronics don't like having the juice turned off and on frequently, this can wear them out faster or sometimes outright kill them if they're already in a degraded shape. Thus, it is probably going to be bad for some things in your house. Also, as someone else pointed out, if a lot of people were to take this tact, it could very well cause a surge in your local power grid, which is going to make your life suck as well as all of your neighbors. I didn't know this until college, but apparently there are people who keep an eye on the power grids and 'guesstimate' when and where power is going to be used, in order to keep the power outputs, voltages, etc all the same. It's really amazing but would be a big derail. Suffice to say that doing this could make their jobs difficult to provide juice to your and your neighbor's houses.

Something else worth pointing out. I've had several HVAC people tell me to not let me house heat up or cool down by more than 10 degrees F off of where we want it kept at. The reason for this being that it's just going to take that much more energy to heat up/cool down the house from however far it's allowed to stray from the ideal point. Thus, don't just kill your air or heat while you are away.

[KukriKhan]

Thanks, Whacker. You confirm some of my worst fears.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Circuit breakers are not designed to operate as a regular switch, but to protect in case of an overload. Turning them on/off like a regular switch can cause damage to the buzz bar and circuit breaker. I found this out the hard way. A tenant of mine did this instead of reporting a problem to me, and it cost me several hundred dollars to fix.

Better to have an HVAC inspection to target heating/cooling loss. Use programmable thermostats. Lower the temp. on your hot water heater to 120F. Use a hot water jacket on the tank. Change incandescent bulbs to CFL ones. Clean central air filters monthly. Try using power strips on your gadgets to make it easier to shut them all off when not in use. Buy the most energy efficient appliances when replacing old ones.

Beware the scam artists trying to sell "energy saving capacitors". Unless your energy consumption is akin to an industrial plant you won't save a penny.

Contact your utility company and enquire about conservation kits.

Has California deregulated the energy industry like some states have? New York has but I don't see any real savings. Heh, I live within 40 miles of one of the largest hydro-electric systems on the planet, Niagara Falls, and I pay more per KWH (.15+/kwh) than someone living in Phoenix ARZ, a freakin' desert. Go figure...

Fortunate for me I heat & cook with natural gas.

[KukriKhan]

Thanks, Hosakawa Tito. Your feedback drove me to find some mechanical drawings of breaker switches.

So, what I've learned is: although they LOOK like heavy-duty light switches, inside they are anything but heavy-duty. Deliberately-thin parts, designed to break in the event of spike 'events'. If I toss it to-and-fro, even just once daily, I run the risk of breaking it.

So I won't be doing that as a savings tactic. Thanks fellas for preventing me making a costly mistake.

Heh, I live within 40 miles of one of the largest hydro-electric systems on the planet, Niagara Falls, and I pay more per KWH (.15+/kwh) than someone living in Phoenix ARZ

Well, I can't complain to you then, can I?

My town authorized the local power company to build a smallish generating plant 1 mile from my house. It's not too intrusive, and pumps out a lot of juice, NONE of which (we've learned) goes directly to Escondido. Instead, it just feeds "Teh Grid". So having a power plant in my backyard helps my California, Nevada & Arizona neighbors a little bit, but me, personally - not at all.

Oh well, back to more passive measures, as you describe. Maybe I can talk some of the neighborhood kids into running a few hours in a hamster wheel, for some local generation...?

[Marshal Murat]

You could always inquire (since you are in California) about getting discounts on energy-saving equipment and also putting solar-panels on your house. Just a thought.

[Gregoshi]

You could always inquire (since you are in California) about getting discounts on energy-saving equipment and also putting solar-panels on your house. Just a thought.

Agreed. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a tax incentive/break to take advantage of too.

[KukriKhan]

Originally Posted by Marshal Murat
You could always inquire (since you are in California) about getting discounts on energy-saving equipment and also putting solar-panels on your house. Just a thought.

Agreed. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a tax incentive/break to take advantage of too.

Yeah. Current policy is the State will cover 20-25% of installation cost... except Guv Arnie sez he has to lay off a couple thousand teachers & state troopers, retraining them as "green jobs" installing that stuff, to do it. He's currently outta cash from saving the yellow-bellied gnat-catching pollywoggle somewhere mid-state.

More seriously, if putting up solars and erecting my own personal windmill would make my meter "run backwards", I'd do it. But, just now, the initial costs are prohibitive. Maybe next year, when some of the Fed's green initiatives kick in we'll get some relief on cost - and I'll be first in line.

(Part of the trouble is in storing that locally-generated power for later use on-demand, right? Huge batteries? Fuel cells? Cold fusion?)

[Hosakawa Tito]

An HVAC inspection can cost $50-$100, which in California ducats is probably closer to double that. However, finding the source of any potential energy waste first would be the most cost effective way to save. No sense chopping wood in the wrong part of the forest. Weatherizing windows & doors, adequate insulation in the attic, walls, basement sill plate, plumbing & electrical cut-outs within walls, etc... are things most of us can do ourselves *sweat equity* to help the cause.

Hook up exercise bikes to generate power for the tv etal...invite the grandkids, neighborhood kids, etc. over for a fun bike ride. Hey, it worked for Tom Sawyer and that fence that needed painting.

Within the last 3 years I've replaced my roof, new siding/added 1" rigid insulation, all windows changed to triple pane/low E glass, all doors to insulated steel, basement windows to glass block units, programmable thermostats. Appliances are fairly new STAR rated and am switching out old light bulbs with CFL ones. I've probably saved 25-30% on my yearly energy usage & cost, natural gas & electricity. Everytime the utility company estimates my monthly usage, which is every other month, they are way high because they are going by my old average usage for that month/season. The next month's "actual reading" bill is much lower because of the previous over-charge. Phone calls to the customer service department don't seem to change a thing. On the bill they print out a usage bar graph by month and label each bar Estimated or Actual reading. Any 5 year old could look at and notice that every bar with an E is much higher than the ones marked A.

Don'tcha just adore monopolies?

[ICantSpellDawg]

Yeah. Current policy is the State will cover 20-25% of installation cost... except Guv Arnie sez he has to lay off a couple thousand teachers & state troopers, retraining them as "green jobs" installing that stuff, to do it. He's currently outta cash from saving the yellow-bellied gnat-catching pollywoggle somewhere mid-state.

More seriously, if putting up solars and erecting my own personal windmill would make my meter "run backwards", I'd do it. But, just now, the initial costs are prohibitive. Maybe next year, when some of the Fed's green initiatives kick in we'll get some relief on cost - and I'll be first in line.

(Part of the trouble is in storing that locally-generated power for later use on-demand, right? Huge batteries? Fuel cells? Cold fusion?)

I'd advocate solar panels. I just found out that my family can produce enough power by placing them on the roof to power the whole house AND sell a ton back to the grid.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Dig up Tesla and clone him.

[drone]

I would suggest buying a current meter and checking everything that is plugged in. It's surprising how much electricity some devices use in standby, and the wall-wart transformers chew up a fair amount. Try to determine what is sucking the power, and put those on power strips that can be turned off when not in use.

Other random tips:

• Switch as many lights as you can to CFLs. Not only do they use less electricity, but they also generate less heat, so your AC won't have to work as hard.
• Get a programmable thermostat, set it so the AC isn't running full tilt while you are at work.
• You might also consider getting an attic fan if possible, at least check the insulation in the attic space and any roof peaks.
• If you have a garage, make sure the walls between the garage and the house are insulated.
• Put an insulation jacket around the hot water heater.
• Maybe tint the windows, or at least close the blinds/shades/curtains during the heat of the day.

[Ramses II CP]

You know in the long term monopolies can be beneficial... it's just too long a term to do us little guys any good.

Don't flip your breakers frivolously, as you've already concluded. Do examine your bill to determine if it's a rate hike causing your increase. The simple fact may be that the companies are looking to make a certain amount of money and are adjusting rates against average useage to ensure they catch it. In other words every time you and your neighbors cut back on consumption your power company might well be raising rates to make up the difference. You can't stop cutting back as long as your neighbors still are or you'll foot a higher proportion of the bill, but just realize that the cycle has a logical end point in the minimum amount of energy you can consume rather than the maximum amount they can charge.

Solar panels and other such energy saving mechanisms make sense only under a select set of circumstances. Look closely at your life and patterns to make sure you aren't loading too much cash on the front end to reap any benefits over the length of time you're in that residence.

[Centurion1]

Ironically enough ill be in California by the end of the month. sun panels and other green measures are usually cost affordable but, there are factors that play in. You cant just plop them down and get power. So your going to have to make sure you have an effective angle to garner the sunlight, the proper storage facilities (which are a pain in the butt from what i hear), and requisition whatever grid you are on (San Diego County Gas and electric?????) to give you power but at a reduced rate. However, it is probably a simpler expedient to achieve in California. My grandmother lives in mission hills (and NO she was there before the rainbow flags were) and the guy who owns her apartment complex cant even get panels because of the buildings alongside it. The problem with green is it sounds easy, but its has some kinks in the works beneath the surface.

howasayka those are a very nice set of improvements to your building. Im assuming the value jumped quite a bit without this housing crisis occurring? sure they aren't design changes but they are key to housing

[Hosakawa Tito]

The improvements were an absolute necessity & expensive, especially the windows. The house still had the original windows from when it was built in 1973. They leaked so much air in winter you could watch the curtains waft in the breeze when the windows were shut.

New York State's high taxes kill the value of homes in our area. Even when you pay off your mortgage you're still paying hundreds of dollars a month in school & property taxes for the priviledge to live in the Vampire State.

[Centurion1]

Ha the vampire state. I like that

Well better some improvments then none i guess. As to something like a roof its gonna go eventually so its better not to wait and get additional damage. yikes about your windows that must have played hell with your electricity bill and heating

[Caius]

Cant you read the electric meter by yourself? Does it correspond with the ammount mentioned in the bill?

I say this, not for experience, but I once heard that the ones who read the meter went into strike and the company charged without knowing which was the real consume.

[doc_bean]

Don't accidentally turn off the freezer, not good for your family's heatlh.

Other than that, put a switch between everything. Even LED lights add up, but certainly avoid transfo's (digital TV, dim lights without a real off switch, etc). Don't leave the computer on when you're not using it, ...