When is a fascist not a fascist?

[Louis VI the Fat]

....ouch, just ouch.

<<heads off to consider whether he can toss a minor infraction point at Louis for the bilinguality of the pun.>>

Warning points? Send it to I.P. adress 44.44.47.19.


Yes, another bad French yoke.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

44.44.47.19 = cot-cot-cot-cot-cot, c'est un œuf.

[CountArach]

Why do you find it so hard to come to terms with something such as leftist terrorism and ultra-violent leftist scum. It exists, I didn't invent it to annoy you. I would have picked the Oklahoma-bombing by the way.

Where did I deny its existance? I never did that - I hate it because I believe it discredits the movement as a whole. All I am saying is it is not a phenomenon of the left - the right has plenty of extremists as well.

[Fragony]

All I am saying is it is not a phenomenon of the left - the right has plenty of extremists as well.

As we all know, I guess we are just more vocal in our disaproval.

edit: and somebody explain me luigi's joke.

[Husar]

edit: and somebody explain me luigi's joke.

"un œuf" sounds like "enough" with a little phantasy I think.

[Andres]

edit: and somebody explain me luigi's joke.

44.44.47.19 = cot-cot-cot-cot-cot, c'est un œuf.

"quatre" (four) roughly sounds like "cot".

"Sept (seven) un (one) neuf (nine)" sounds exactly like "c'est un œuf" which means "it's an egg".

[HoreTore]

Why do you find it so hard to come to terms with something such as leftist terrorism and ultra-violent leftist scum.

I have absolutely no trouble "coming to terms with" leftist terrorism. Of course it exists, you think that "armed revolution"-thing is just talk, or what?

What I find troubling, is your rabid overstatement of the threat it poses(today, the threat is almost zero, not like the seventies anymore). Griffin should have no trouble sleeping over this. Just like our socialist finance minister shouldn't have any trouble sleeping(she got a cake in her face while walking down the street a week after she started), even though both left wing and right wing extremists have killed people.

EDIT: And do I need to remind you what you've been saying in the threads where I've talked about neo-nazi's and the threat presented by them...?

[Kralizec]

I wouldn't call throwing a single egg assault, anymore than I would call a slight push on the shoulder an assault. Breaking up political meetings of a rival party with an angry mob is something else though...what a novel idea!

So... That's why their total death count is a grand total of....1?

Yeah, sounds like a real threat.

...

Some peeps need to look at the history books.

[HoreTore]

...

That's exactly it. The hey-day over leftie terrorism is over, it didn't survive the 80's. The religious nuts have the ball now...

[Fragony]

EDIT: And do I need to remind you what you've been saying in the threads where I've talked about neo-nazi's and the threat presented by them...?

sure why not.

[HoreTore]

sure why not.

Let me give you a hint; it's the exact opposite of what you've been saying in this thread

[CountArach]

As we all know, I guess we are just more vocal in our disaproval.

Yes, but largely because it is more wide-spread. The need is there to be more vocal about it.

Anyway I think we've just about exhausted that line of discussion.

[Kralizec]

It's not as big as it used to be, but then again- neither is fascism.

I'll assume you know about the Animal Liberation Front. Some say it's not leftist but I disagree. It also targets people who they accuse of indirectly earning money from "animal slavery". For example their threats to stock exchanges or even terrorising construction workers who are hired to construct labs.

[Fragony]

Let me give you a hint; it's the exact opposite of what you've been saying in this thread

Let me give you an invitation, post it here

[HoreTore]

It's not as big as it used to be, but then again- neither is fascism.

Indeedy - neither of those are any real threat today.

I'll assume you know about the Animal Liberation Front. Some say it's not leftist but I disagree. It also targets people who they accuse of indirectly earning money from "animal slavery". For example their threats to stock exchanges or even terrorising construction workers who are hired to construct labs.

Animal rights groups, while often mixed with leftist groups, are not inherently leftist. That is, socialism doesn't gave a damn about animals, socialism is about the economic system. Ie., socialists are concerned with how money are being made from the animals, not the animals themselves. Time to face it, politics today are more diverse than simple left and right. Animal rights groups have nothing to do with either of those two, as neither of them gave a rats arse about animals.

[Fragony]

Animal rights groups have nothing to do with either of those two, as neither of them gave a rats arse about animals.

Sure they do, so many ideals such a lack of proletariat. And it looks like they won't have a voice of their own for a while.

[Beskar]

If I remember correctly, isn't there a song lyric that goes "You got egg on your face, you big disgrace!" maybe they were just wanting to recreate that but Nick Griffin declined the invitation to egg and soldiers breakfast at the cafe.

[HoreTore]

Sure they do, so many ideals such a lack of proletariat. And it looks like they won't have a voice of their own for a while.

Uhm...

No.

[Fragony]

No of course not, they are animals they can't speak you are so owned.

[JAG]

It is quite clear that the BNP are made up of Nazi sympathysers, racists and authoritarian members. The rights and freedom of speech which they claim are always abashed are the very same ones which they themselves would gladly get rid of not only to those in this this country who are not white, but to every single person who doesn't agree with them. Furthermore, the disgusting acts by their members over the years coupled with the disgusting things they say, means that not only should they have no platform but should be shown through logic, reason and downright common sense, to be the fascist extremists they are.

I dislike and abhore everything the BNP stand for and quite happily campaign against them, however this new group that has just been set up, 'Unite against facism' is not only counter productive, but plainly, stupid. It has been set up in haste by a random assortment of trade unions and left wing groups, which fail to see the big picture. Making the BNP seem somehow victims, making their supporters - hardened ones or not - feel somehow that this in itself shows exactly why they should vote BNP. You cannot stifle freedom of speech to save freedom of speech, it is complte lunacy of thought. Their continuing stupidity, by stating they will continue to hound the BNP, just goes to show how they need to be condemned by the major parties - just because they are anti BNP does not mean they shouldn't be held up to the light of reasonable behaviour.

There are many, many groups set up to counter the BNP in every area of politics and society, we do not need another one - especially one which does such idiotic things such as this. They mean well and want to 'take the fight' to the BNP, but by arms - eggs or otherwise - and intimidation, can never be the right way. Especially as we are talking about opposing a 'party' which uses these exact tactics. Things like this really get me pissed off and if any of you saw the channel 4 news interview with one of the founding members of the unite group, you could see as plain as day how idiotic his thought process was.

Anyway, things like this get my blood boil, stupid people ruining public perception and the ability of those really doing a good job against the BNP on the ground from being as effective as they can. But just one further point, IA, if you think a demonstration against fascism which uses intimidation and eggs means the people demonstrating are fascists, you not only have one very wrong impression of fascism but moreover a very narrow view when judging people's actions.

[Kralizec]

I dislike and abhore everything the BNP stand for and quite happily campaign against them, however this new group that has just been set up, 'Unite against facism' is not only counter productive, but plainly, stupid. It has been set up in haste by a random assortment of trade unions and left wing groups, which fail to see the big picture. Making the BNP seem somehow victims, making their supporters - hardened ones or not - feel somehow that this in itself shows exactly why they should vote BNP. You cannot stifle freedom of speech to save freedom of speech, it is complte lunacy of thought. Their continuing stupidity, by stating they will continue to hound the BNP, just goes to show how they need to be condemned by the major parties - just because they are anti BNP does not mean they shouldn't be held up to the light of reasonable behaviour.

IA, if you think a demonstration against fascism which uses intimidation and eggs means the people demonstrating are fascists, you not only have one very wrong impression of fascism but moreover a very narrow view when judging people's actions.

People who equate these people with fascists don't care a lot about what ideas they claim to have. The Soviet Union was a lot closer than fascist Italy than the paradise it was on paper. While they would deny it, these anti-fascists are untolerant and against freedom of speech

[Fragony]

Iif you think a demonstration against fascism which uses intimidation and eggs means the people demonstrating are fascists, you not only have one very wrong impression of fascism but moreover a very narrow view when judging people's actions.

oh really, do I

[HoreTore]

People who equate these people with fascists don't care a lot about what ideas they claim to have. The Soviet Union was a lot closer than fascist Italy than the paradise it was on paper. While they would deny it, these anti-fascists are untolerant and against freedom of speech

But then again....

If someone could've shot Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pinochet, Franco, Pol Pot, etc, before they got power, should it be done?

It would, after all, be a clear breach of freedom of speech and a number of other human rights.

[Kralizec]

But then again....

If someone could've shot Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pinochet, Franco, Pol Pot, etc, before they got power, should it be done?

It would, after all, be a clear breach of freedom of speech and a number of other human rights.

That depends. I have enough faith in democracy to believe that we'd never end up with such people by election results. The notion that these anti-fascists are preventing another holocaust by pelting a bunch of losers with eggs is laughable.

In the case of Hitler, I'd argue that the Weimar republic never became a functional democracy and the "free election in" 1933 was a farce.
Before Stalin became a dictator he was already a powerful politician in a despotic government.
Mao and Franco were fighting civil wars, and the alternative in either case was nothing to be particulary cheerful about either.
And as for Pinochet: if you killed him before the coup, you either had the amazing ability of predicting the future or you were a simple terrorist.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The notion that these anti-fascists are preventing another holocaust by pelting a bunch of losers with eggs is laughable.

To quote the great Fragony:
lol@Kralizec.
Kralizec>fascist and antifascists with too much spare time.

And as for Pinochet: if you killed him before the coup, you either had the amazing ability of predicting the future or you were a simple terrorist.

Or you worked for the CIA and had quite a good idea of what was coming... :sinistersmilie:

[Vladimir]

For those too young to remember: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_Pinochet (CIA helped him to power)

I hold him in the same regard as Ataturk. God bless them both.

Chile: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/CI.html

[Kralizec]

Or you worked for the CIA and had quite a good idea of what was coming... :sinistersmilie:

More likely the KGB, though...

[LittleGrizzly]

God bless them both.

May god bless him with a continual messy death in a football stadium. Then may god bless him with an inability to know what has ahppened to his nearest and dearest, may god bless him with the sorrow of not knowing where your son or daugyhter is, if they are dead if they are inprisoned if they are hurt and need help, if they scared... let god bless him with what he did to other people, death destruction and misery!

Even if we are to assume that BNP could become the next hitler would egg throwing really be the way to stop such a movement ?

I would also like to remind all the people having a dig at leftys lets us not forget the facists that hit prescott with an egg, damn facist farmers, the facists that covered blair in purple powder, damn facist fathers, and whatever group attacked mandelson for whatever reason... hopefully they start with an F as well...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Oh come on. Like you didn't applaud it when one of brown's ministers(name escapes me atm) got green sauce all over his face.

I didn't hear about it in the first place, but no, I wouldn't applaud it. Every democratically elected minister, MP, or MEP deserves a certain amount of respect, no matter how distasteful I find their views.

Do you really think I would defend the BNP over Labour?

[naut]

The Sun's headline summed it up nicely: "Bad Egg Is Hit By Good Egg"

[Tribesman]

Hey, we do egg throwing at politicians here as well!

Egging politicians is quite common , though the hungarians recently put through a case that overturned previous rulings that throwing eggs was part of freedom of expression.
Surely it is traditional for britons to pelt food at peope who are rubbish, be they actors singers orators or politicians .
Since Griffin wants good old British values and customs then he must be in favour of throwing food at idiots .
Then again listening to him over the past few years its quite hard to be specific about what he sees as British, his latest attempts are hilarious . Apparently you can tell who is British just by looking at them , so if there is any doubt about who is a true brit all you have to do is look for a drunk sunburnt slob throwing his guts up in the canary islands who is wearing union jack shorts. Anyone not fitting that description will have to be banned from Britain or fenced inside the BNPs proposed segregation enclaves for non-real-british.

Every democratically elected minister, MP, or MEP deserves a certain amount of respect, no matter how distasteful I find their views.

Why?