Difference between light and heavy cavalry class...

[Cute Wolf]

Just notice some strangeness...

Indo Iranian Light cavalry is --> Heavy Cavalry... descr say they are light, but their class is heavy, what that means for?
Taxillan Agema, description say it was cataphract without horse armor, --> was light cavalry...
Katuvarram --> Lusotann bogyguards is the only BG unit with "Light Cavalry" class... why?

Just curious, what did the Heavy cavalry and light cavalry attributes do...

[Atraphoenix]

basically

light cavalry:

Ups;

+ speed
+ maneuver
+ flexibility
+ price
+ chasing down routers
+ fatigue
+ some have incredible charge points

Downs:

- no horse armor
- lesser attack rating
- horrible melee
- no match for heavy cavalry
- lesser morale
- lesser discipline

Heavy cavalry:

Ups;

+wonderful melee
+armor
+great morale and discipline
+battle changing charges
+also their model look cool :-)

Downs:

- speed
- maneuver (for AI mostly)
- flexibility (For AI mostly)
- price
- fatigue
- no match against elite (even levy) infantry (It is demoralizing to test pandadapoi phalangites against cataphracts, if you face catas with them they have no chance; I always use them for cavalry hunter unit thanks to their wonderful AP exes. I hate to confess but pandadapoi phalangites can rout grivpandar with axes and without hold position order of course controlled by player; they are better cavalry hunter than pezhetairoi)
- Only limited factions have elite worthy cavalries.


P.S. Do not forget AI is dumb so I am sure you have experienced many times AI generals/heavy cavalries loves charging phalanx from front. That is why I use alex, at least AI tries to outflank me with its cavalry.

[strategos roma]

gripankvar can break any phalanx up front with minimal casualties.

[Maion Maroneios]

I hate Parthikoi Kataphraktoi...

Maion

[Celtic_Punk]

basically

light cavalry:

Ups;

+ speed
+ maneuver
+ flexibility
+ price
+ chasing down routers
+ fatigue
+ some have incredible charge points

Downs:

- no horse armor
- lesser attack rating
- horrible melee
- no match for heavy cavalry
- lesser morale
- lesser discipline

Heavy cavalry:

Ups;

+wonderful melee
+armor
+great morale and discipline
+battle changing charges
+also their model look cool :-)

Downs:

- speed
- maneuver (for AI mostly)
- flexibility (For AI mostly)
- price
- fatigue
- no match against elite (even levy) infantry (It is demoralizing to test pandadapoi phalangites against cataphracts, if you face catas with them they have no chance; I always use them for cavalry hunter unit thanks to their wonderful AP exes. I hate to confess but pandadapoi phalangites can rout grivpandar with axes and without hold position order of course controlled by player; they are better cavalry hunter than pezhetairoi)
- Only limited factions have elite worthy cavalries.


P.S. Do not forget AI is dumb so I am sure you have experienced many times AI generals/heavy cavalries loves charging phalanx from front. That is why I use alex, at least AI tries to outflank me with its cavalry.

I can down lots of heavy infantry with heavy cav. Just pull out right after you charge home. Don't wait till they finish the charge. Once the initial plow finishes, pullout before you lose anyone(else) and set up for another charge. What helps is to run around the back of their line before charging to demoralize the enemy. This makes them scared. Once they are worried about their flanks, ATTACK! then retreat, set up. ATTACK!, retreat, setup, ATTACK, retreat, rest, ATTACK! if you even get to that 4th charge, you are either doing something wrong, or you're doomed to lose.

[Cute Wolf]

Hey... I don't ask about their use! allready know bout them

I ask about their somewhat "misnamed" class! LOL

But thanks anyway

[Smeel]

Unit classes determine how the AI use the unit, with no regard of stats, right? Thats' probably the reason.

[Nirvanish]

Unit classes determine how the AI use the unit, with no regard of stats, right? Thats' probably the reason.

This is the purpose for the different infantry classes so I assume its the same for cavalry.

[antisocialmunky]

gripankvar can break any phalanx up front with minimal casualties.

I'd like to see that.

Maion, you should join Baktria, my Kats eat Parthian Cats and their lack of AP.

[Watchman]

AI formation files and campmap recruitement priorities, pretty much. Same as with infantry. Plus it's not like the classification was exactly clear-cut most of the time anyway...

[Tellos Athenaios]

The Taxilan Agema are surprisingly able to deal with Hetairoi and the like... That they chuck javelins is merely a coincidental circumstance: they do deserve the "approved for melee" label that "heavy" usually means.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Well, I do not use any cavalry without spears or with overhand spears. Just not worth it. The main and pretty much only significant strength of cavalry is their charge, which, if the mounted units has underhand spear/lances, inflicts grievous casualties. Even the lightest of the cavalry units, such as Leuce Epos, will defeat much heavier infantry, especially if it is not spear.

[Cute Wolf]

About how the AI use them? They use them in exactly same idiot way... I can't point out their difference in use...

A much curious case.... Lusotann BG is light... but they are certainly very good for melee against much kind of infantry..... maybe there lies some "typo"?

[Watchman]

They're not exactly heavy shock lancers, are they ? Just elite light horse with javs.

[Tellos Athenaios]

They're not exactly heavy shock lancers, are they ? Just elite light horse with javs.

Not shock lancers, no. But if you found yourself in need of a medium to heavy cavalry unit able to deal with the rather more heavily armed cavalry that usually does do the shock lancer part...

You wouldn't claim that Indian Guild Infantry are exactly _heavy_ infantry of the line either. But that shouldn't suggest they aren't capable of delivering a nasty surprise if you find your own heavy infantry caught in melee with them?

[Aemilius Paulus]

You wouldn't claim that Indian Guild Infantry are exactly _heavy_ infantry of the line either. But that shouldn't suggest they aren't capable of delivering a nasty surprise if you find your own heavy infantry caught in melee with them?

Speaking of those blokes, where are the sources for their weapon? I am sure it is historical, but it is quite peculiar, even for the exotic Indian weaponry. Looks more like something an Orc would employ, out of Peter Jackson's Lord of Rings... It resembles a khanda, but it has that sort of hook at the end.

[antisocialmunky]

Not sure, I started that thread a few montsh ago and never got a straight answer. It is similar to a khanda and a few other Indian weapons but I can't pin it down. The shape of the ingame weapon is just weird, cool but weird. I did find a few swords that looked like it. My best guess is that its some sort of Kopis/Khanda hybrid or a Khanda/Kora with a downwards flare at the end(see center column, bottom sword).



The weapons took most like the ones in the right column but those are well out of the time range/size

I think the India specialist that specified that weapon left as well.

[Cute Wolf]

Ohh... so all that times I was wrong...

I was think that "Gaesatae" was "heavy infantry" because they are fat men...

[Atraphoenix]

gripankvar can break any phalanx up front with minimal casualties.

mate, did you read completely what I said,
I said I, player can rout grivpandar with phalanx not AI,
I can decimate even argyraspides with them (grivpanmdar).
what I mean is AI is dumb. you can win what unit they use.

[AqD]

Just notice some strangeness...

Indo Iranian Light cavalry is --> Heavy Cavalry... descr say they are light, but their class is heavy, what that means for?
Taxillan Agema, description say it was cataphract without horse armor, --> was light cavalry...
Katuvarram --> Lusotann bogyguards is the only BG unit with "Light Cavalry" class... why?

Just curious, what did the Heavy cavalry and light cavalry attributes do...

It has something do with AI recruitment and tactical use on battlefield.

Heavy cavalry: more frontal charge, more melee combat.
Light cavalry: more flanking charge and re-charge, less melee combat.

[Watchman]

More or less, as far as the game goes.

IRL the distinction tends to be that "heavy" troops are those whose main, or only, tactical function is shock combat in more or less close order. The "lights" are those whose duties revolve more around mobility, cross-country maneuverability, ranged combat etc.

Obviously, the line between the two can be fuzzy in the extreme, especially in the case of high-end "light" units which can often rip rank-and-file "heavies" a proverbial new one up close and personal. But that, like the exact makeup of the units' equipement, is well beside the point.