Personal Historical Anecdotes Thread

**King Kurt** · 06-30-2009, 12:08

Can I echo rotorgun's comments - to hear somebody's personal account of such an event is very moving and some how more real. In this modern age of 24 hour news - notice how most of us talk about watching something on the TV - we all get a little sanitised to the effects of such events. It is only when it becomes a personal account that it really strikes home - thank you Hooahguy for sharing that with us.

From my perspective, I am reminded of something my father talked about. He did National service in the Royal Navy in the late 1940's. Once he was trained all his group were assembled in a mess and split into 2 groups alphabeticaly. My dad's group were assigned to HMS Tyne - a destroyer depot ship in Harwich, so his national service was spent in home waters - he never even went to sea. The other group were assigned to HMS Amethyst - a frigate involved in the Yangtze Incident where quite a few sailors lost their lives - see - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Amethyst_(F116)

So, on the strength of having a name begining with B he missed this deadly incident in the Cold War - and as that was before I was born, I am forever grateful for that alphabetic influence on my life.

**econ21** · 07-02-2009, 01:58

It's a rather minor historical event, but I remember vividly first learning of Bill Clinton's election as US President. I was doing field work in the Masai area of Kenya and had just walked past two moran (warriors) replete with red paint and long assegais. A fellow tribesman standing alone at the remote bus stop told me the US Presidential election results. Ah, the wonders of globalisation.

On another African theme, I remember learning of Princess Diana's death in the TV room of a Tanzanian hotel. I was the only Brit there, but I remember the room was full with people shocked at the untimely death of what seemed to them a fairytale character. I found the outpourings of grief by the British people rather strange, but the funeral was incredibly charged - with her brother making a speech more electrifying than that of any politician I have heard.

Strangely, some of the larger historical events have made less of a personal impression - I guess because they were often gradual (e.g. the fall of communism or apartheid) rather than sudden; affecting many nameless people rather than a single famous individual. I have no memory of contemporary coverage of the Rwandan genoicide, although after the event, some of the reporting is incredibly vivid. I remember seeing the Srebrenica massacre almost playout on TV before my eyes, but not appreciating what was going on - we saw the men get on the buses and I am sure the reporters must have expressed some misgivings, but it was only a while afterwards that I realised what I had seen.

**Louis VI the Fat** · 07-02-2009, 03:53

Good to see you, econ!!

I remember when I was young, I received a letter saying I had to perform my military duty. We were poor, and I didn't have shoes. So I had to walk all the way to Verdun to fight the Germans and

Wait, that was my greatgrandfather. Me, I grew up during the war in former Yugolavia. Was with my girlfriend in Denmark during the 1998 World Cup final - all alone and yet together with what felt all the countless millions. I was in university during 9-11.

This is a great thread. It is getting too late write anything of substance that does the subject justice. I must return another time.

**rotorgun** · 07-06-2009, 20:30

That bit about your grandfather was very compelling King Kurt; being assigned the the HMS Tyne instead of the HMS Amethyst on the vagaries of an alphabetical roll call! Curiously, I was just reading about the Yangtze incident just last night, so one can imagine my surprise at hearing of your ancestor's near involvement in it. Thank goodness, or you might have never known your granddad.

One of my grandfathers, Lucien LaCroix, of French-Canadian descent, was unfortunately lost off the French port of Granville. Joining the US Navy in 1942, he ended up becoming a gunner's mate aboard Patrol Craft 564. A sub chaser, something like the corvette class of warship of 173 feet in length, with a crew of 65. She was armed with one 4 in. gun, a 40mm, and two 20mm AA mounts. She also carried a supply of depth charges and was equipped with sonar and radar. In March of 1945 she was lying off the port of Granville, on the Atlantic side of the Cotentin peninsula, across from St Malo. There was a collier operation going on there and the Allied authorities were using some German POW to load the coal aboard the collier ships.

Northwest of Granville, were the islands of Jersey and Guernsey, known as the channel islands. They were occupied by the Germans early in the war. The German commander decided to mount a raid on Granville to repatriate the POW and perhaps capture or destroy the colliers. This they did, with a force of four minesweepers, three flak gun barges (armed with the dread 88mm guns) and six E-boats. Attacking around midnight, the first vessel to come under fire was PC 564. Caught unaware, the crew responded quickly to the general quarters alarm. The 4 in. gun was soon trained around and loaded. It fired the first round, and then the breech jammed. While trying to clear it, the 88s scored a direct hit, destroying the gun and killing the crew. The 40mm and 20mm guns returned fire, but all three were knocked out by the next salvo of 88s. In a matter of less than 5 minutes, PC 564 was battered defenseless.

By now, she began to take on water from several hull hits. The Captain, a young Lieutenant JG. who had recently assumed command, initially ordered the crew to begin abandoning the ship. My grandfather, the only survivor of the 40mm gun crew, made his way to one of the boats. He and about a dozen or more managed to get a boat underway. Another boat also made its escape. The Lieutenant then changed his mind, and ordered, the ship to attempt to make for the beach several miles to the southeast. In all the confusion, no one thought of the crew that were in the boats. The managed to beach the ship, and was no more a part of the battle. The Germans succeeded in repatriating more than 50 POW, and captured one collier ship, and damaged the other. They also shot up the barracks and several shore facilities in the port.

The Germans managed to capture the lifeboats and all the crew members therein, except for my grandfather. The following day, his lifeless body was discovered floating in a raft, a bullet hole in his head. I guess he just didn't want to be captured by the Germans so close to his beloved France. We'll never know. To this day, no one of the surviving members of the crew will talk about how he died. It would have been nice to have known him, and I'm sure that my mother's life would have been better, as the man my grandmother remarried too was an abusive drunk, that made life difficult for everyone in that family.

Sorry guys, but I had to tell this tale. Forgive my indulgence.

**rotorgun** · 07-06-2009, 20:31

That bit about your grandfather was very compelling King Kurt; being assigned the the HMS Tyne instead of the HMS Amethyst on the vagaries of an alphabetical roll call! Curiously, I was just reading about the Yangtze incident just last night, so one can imagine my surprise at hearing of your ancestor's near involvement in it. Thank goodness, or you might have never known your granddad.

One of my grandfathers, Lucien LaCroix, of French-Canadian descent, was unfortunately lost off the French port of Granville. Joining the US Navy in 1942, he ended up becoming a gunner's mate aboard Patrol Craft 564. A sub chaser, something like the corvette class of warship of 173 feet in length, with a crew of 65. She was armed with one 4 in. gun, a 40mm, and two 20mm AA mounts. She also carried a supply of depth charges and was equipped with sonar and radar. In March of 1945 she was lying off the port of Granville, on the Atlantic side of the Cotentin peninsula, across from St Malo. There was a collier operation going on there and the Allied authorities were using some German POW to load the coal aboard the collier ships.

Northwest of Granville, were the islands of Jersey and Guernsey, known as the channel islands. They were occupied by the Germans early in the war. The German commander decided to mount a raid on Granville to repatriate the POW and perhaps capture or destroy the colliers. This they did, with a force of four minesweepers, three flak gun barges (armed with the dread 88mm guns) and six E-boats. Attacking around midnight, the first vessel to come under fire was PC 564. Caught unaware, the crew responded quickly to the general quarters alarm. The 4 in. gun was soon trained around and loaded. It fired the first round, and then the breech jammed. While trying to clear it, the 88s scored a direct hit, destroying the gun and killing the crew. The 40mm and 20mm guns returned fire, but all three were knocked out by the next salvo of 88s. In a matter of less than 5 minutes, PC 564 was battered defenseless.

By now, she began to take on water from several hull hits. The Captain, a young Lieutenant JG. who had recently assumed command, initially ordered the crew to begin abandoning the ship. My grandfather, the only survivor of the 40mm gun crew, made his way to one of the boats. He and about a dozen or more managed to get a boat underway. Another boat also made its escape. The Lieutenant then changed his mind, and ordered, the ship to attempt to make for the beach several miles to the southeast. In all the confusion, no one thought of the crew that were in the boats. The managed to beach the ship, and was no more a part of the battle. The Germans succeeded in repatriating more than 50 POW, and captured one collier ship, and damaged the other. They also shot up the barracks and several shore facilities in the port.

The Germans managed to capture the lifeboats and all the crew members therein, except for my grandfather. The following day, his lifeless body was discovered floating in a raft, a bullet hole in his head. I guess he just didn't want to be captured by the Germans so close to his beloved France. We'll never know. To this day, no one of the surviving members of the crew will talk about how he died.

Sorry guys, but I had to tell this tale. Forgive my indulgence.