Industry and Wealth

[nafod]

this seems odd..........

perhaps the above post is correct, and all region wealth does is determine the tax revenue (i believe max taxes churns out approx. 44% tax rate)

perhaps it is a bug. i'll test it out tonight and see what i come up with.

Also note that higher taxe rates applied to the upper class will decrease wealth resulting in that 44% pulling from a smaller and smaller base.

[Prussian to the Iron]

Also note that higher taxe rates applied to the upper class will decrease wealth resulting in that 44% pulling from a smaller and smaller base.

ah, yes. the eternal question:

let region wealth grow so you can tax it more efficiently later on?

or

tax now and worry about growth later?


the obvious solution to this is to use a smaller tax for the rich and a higher for the poor, while using ministers who give bonuses to lower class happiness.

[Papewaio]

the obvious solution to this is to use a smaller tax for the rich and a higher for the poor, while using ministers who give bonuses to lower class happiness.

That is stage 2.

Stage 1, minimal tax to the lower class. Proceed to stage 2 when no more villages are available.

[Prussian to the Iron]

That is stage 2.

Stage 1, minimal tax to the lower class. Proceed to stage 2 when no more villages are available.

not if you are trying to get a solid economy and win 40 regions before 1799.

even without any taxes, villages still sometimes take 20 turns to develop! that means 20 turns of no income watsoever from any developing regions.

just think of it like this:

building X produces 1,000 a turn. with a tax rate of 30 percent, you will make 300 a turn off the taxes. which means that you will have, lets say, -75 to town wealth growth per turn. that means that you can make 300 on turn 1, then town income is reduced to 925, giving you 277 on turn 2, then town income is reduced to 850, making 255 on turn 3. so you just made 832 dollars as opposed to 0. make that into al the towns in a given region, and you now have a large amount of lost money.

[al Roumi]

This might help:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=117672

To grow your population and 'pop' the towns, it's as important to research agricultural techs and develop your farms as it is to run with low taxes.

Focusing on agricultural research in the early game is vital for states without much opportunity to trade (Prussia, Austria, Poland, Russia). It's more important for them than others simply because they don't really have an option of alternative income, but even GB, France, Spain & Marathas benefit from such a focus as farming is the only (non-trade) instantly available source of income to them too.

Personally, I only focus on Iron & textile research once I've done 75-80% of farming techs or when a significant number of towns have appeared that can be turned into industrial sites.

[anweRU]

not if you are trying to get a solid economy and win 40 regions before 1799.

Huh? So by your reasoning I shouldn't be winning at least 50 regions by 1740 using 3 for rich & 1 tax for poor, which I regularly do?

Keep the tax rate lowest on the poor, and in the middle for the rich.

[Prussian to the Iron]

Huh? So by your reasoning I shouldn't be winning at least 50 regions by 1740 using 3 for rich & 1 tax for poor, which I regularly do?

no. when you blitz/steamroll everyone early/ early-mid game, economy doesnt matter. so, by my reasoning, a fair and non-blitzer with a large country(like russia) who focuses only on town growth, will fail. all those factories dont count for $**& if you have barely any taxes.

[al Roumi]

no. when you blitz/steamroll everyone early/ early-mid game, economy doesnt matter.

Er, how exactly does your economy "not matter" early-mid game, let alone at any stage of the game? You can't do anything until you've got a decent income from your economy.

so, by my reasoning, a fair and non-blitzer with a large country(like russia) who focuses only on town growth, will fail. all those factories dont count for $**& if you have barely any taxes.

Not sure what you mean by this. It's not like a game would last long at all if you were to play with *no* taxes anywhere (except maybe a UP campaign). But so what?

Russia IS a hard campaign to play, economicaly speaking, compared to a UP or GB campaign.

As has been mentioned before in this thread, farms and factories contribute to your "town wealth" (GNI or Gross National Income is the closest real analogy), a cake from which you take a slice every turn as tax income. You have to grow the cake for your slice to get bigger, as such it's fair to say that tax income is not quite as clear a mechanism to tweak as trade, where you instantly see the benefits of plonking another Indiaman on a trade node.

[Servius]

Alphose got it. If you double-click on a region capital, you'll see the total Region Wealth, which matches the numbers in gold you mentioned. That region wealth is taxed, and you get the tax revenue.

The Region Wealth for each region is the sum of multiple sources of taxable income. Industry is one of them. It's the property value of all your Smiths (metal + cloth). Mine value is counted seperately. So is the value of trade goods produced (you make money on them twice, once as property value that is taxed, and later as trade revenue when your nation sells them to trade partners). Farm value is another seperate source of property value. Lastly, there is a "region wealth" portion of Region Wealth. I know that sounds confusing, but you can see the icon looks like a little house. The region wealth portion of Region Wealth is what goes up when you build roads. It also grows by a certain percentage (shown below Region Wealth) based on how heavily you tax the upper class. This about it like the way houses tend to appreciate (go up) in value over time.

I've build an Excel-based econ tool that includes all this info and helps you know which construction project is the most efficient use of your money. PM me if you'd like me to send you the link to download it.

Lastly, to John-117's post, you shouldn't necessarily raise taxes on the poor. Doing so slows population growth. Pop growth leads to the founding of addtional towns, which you can then turn to industrial, religious, or scientific pursuits. I think population may also affect region wealth, and thus, tax value. It may also be a partial driver of trade values.

On tax policy, I tend to leave the rich taxes in the middle (3 on a 1-5 scale) and set poor tax rates at 2 on a 1-5 scale. For the regions that still have villages that can grow into towns, you'll see that setting the poor tax rate from 3 to 2 makes a big impact on how soon the next town will appear. But moving it from 2 to 1 doesn't make that big a difference. Thus, I think 2 is the optimal point usually.

[jsberry]

Servius' idea is OK but what I do sometimes is divide my regions into regions I tax (wealthy ones that won't grow, like Austria) and regions that I grow (like Hungary, which has little income but it grows towns quickly). I'll then set taxes on middle and exempt the growing regions completely. When they're to the point where the next town is a long time away, I'll tax them.