Europe

[LittleGrizzly]

Forcing unification without holding referendums, against the will of the people, is not the action of a democratic state and is just one thing that justifies comparison to the USSR.

All member states still have national elections, if the issue was important as some make it out to be people would have voted in euro sceptic politicians whether there were mainstream parties representing that view or not...

The people of the USSR had no choice whether to remain part of the USSR, seen as individual states aren't allowed to secede by your definition of calling the EU USSR i could call the USA the USSR right ?

[Furunculus]

Forcing unification without holding referendums, against the will of the people, is not the action of a democratic state and is just one thing that justifies comparison to the USSR.

All member states still have national elections, if the issue was important as some make it out to be people would have voted in euro sceptic politicians whether there were mainstream parties representing that view or not...

if the mainstream parties continue to ignore the will of the electorate, then we all may very well find that parties like UKIP do just fine at the next elections, the recent euro-elections should be seen as warning shot across the bows.

in this light the conservative move to create an anti-federal bloc within the EU is very important.

[Tribesman]

the word "official" is there to point out that most military think-tanks believe that china massively under-reports its defence budget

So if they under-report their budget does that mean its really bigger?
As they are officially 2nd does that mean they are even more second?
That wierd, still puts Britain in 4th not 2nd.

[Furunculus]

So if they under-report their budget does that mean its really bigger?
As they are officially 2nd does that mean they are even more second?

not that anyone would ever accuse you of selectively quoting to create an misleading impression, but yes, that's exactly what i said too:

the word "official" is there to point out that most military think-tanks believe that china massively under-reports its defence budget, so its not a little bit under or over the UK and france, it is probably about 30% higher, if not even higher.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That wierd, still puts Britain in 4th not 2nd.

that is because you still haven't figured out that comparing national figures of what they consider to be their defence spending is not relevant, but i did try:

Defence spending is a very complex thing Tribesman, and very hard to compare.
Does set of figures X include:
> operational expenses
> attrition replacement
> equipment procurement
> R&D projects
> Intelligence apparatus
Then you must ask yourself if figures for nation Y include the same, and they mostly do not.
For example while the Gendarmerie are under the control of the Interior Ministry I believe they are funded from the Defence budget.
So official figures published from their respective nations have little merit for comparative purposes, which is why i went to the trouble of getting the figures pulished by the IISS in the 2008 publication of The Military Balance.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

but to return to the core question; what is the point of your pointless (and incorrect) nit-picking, are you leading somewhere with this?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

All member states still have national elections, if the issue was important as some make it out to be people would have voted in euro sceptic politicians whether there were mainstream parties representing that view or not...

Most people don't vote on a single issue. Established parties already have all of the money and resources. In many countries it is extremely difficult for minor parties to break through. And UKIP and the Conservatives are Eurosceptic parties.

When there is a single issue as important as this, you need a referendum and not an election. Germany especially needs to break with tradition and ask what the people want for once.

The people of the USSR had no choice whether to remain part of the USSR, seen as individual states aren't allowed to secede by your definition of calling the EU USSR i could call the USA the USSR right?

That wasn't my definition though, was it? And I believe states in America are still allowed to secede through a process, though someone will probably correct me if I am wrong.

[KukriKhan]

That wasn't my definition though, was it? And I believe states in America are still allowed to secede through a process, though someone will probably correct me if I am wrong.

There is no provision for it in the US Constitution. So it's not that it's prohibited, it's that it's not specifically authorized. For the moment, barring new law, the US civil war set the precedent that "once in, never out".

Texas talk of secession is bravado, not plan.